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Post by pirates on Sept 29, 2011 14:36:10 GMT 10
Heard last night that the 'International All-Star' team the Aces are playing in Geelong will be largely made up of imports in the BV league this season. Nothing wrong with that, however word reaches me that if a team does not release their import to play in these matches that they may face penalties (though no word if that will be financial or points related). Fingers crossed for no injuries to any player that any club in the competition has invested in bringing to their club from overseas. our club has just been advised that it is mandatory to provide 2 position players and must provide the import pitcher for these games on the Friday and Saturday otherwise there will be a penalty applied? ? Yes the players that the clubs pay for to come out to play for our clubs, What is the penalty? don’t know but there will be one was the answer!!!!!. so lets see midweek game friday and saturday and front up Sunday for the club, that's going to work.
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Post by oldracer on Sept 29, 2011 18:32:40 GMT 10
this penalty could only be issued by BV so what have they got to do with anything that the Aces do apart from dialogue to make sure that schedules are aligned. if the import wishes to try his hand with the Aces and this is known "before" the plane trip etc is paid for, the import should front some of the bill to showcase his wares with the Aces instead of fulfilling his total commitments with his club. I also understand the Aces are touting for imports to be made available, are they stumping up any expenses for the clubs? ?? seriously doubt it.
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Camov
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Post by Camov on Sept 30, 2011 9:42:54 GMT 10
you would imagine after last season that clubs bringing out imports would have written up contracts to protect themselves from just this happening.
if your forking out all the expenses to get a player out you should be entitled to get all of the value from that player.
the tension between clubs - aces is that its a one way street at the moment. cubs have everything to loose and nothing to gain.
And the idea that clubs are going to be penalised for not wanting to give up something they have paid for seems to be a backwards way of addressing the problem.
what about the idea of leasing the players from the club to play at the aces? where the club see's the financial benefits and the imports (if interested) get the opportunity to showcase their abilities.
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Post by barb05 on Sept 30, 2011 11:48:19 GMT 10
I can say that in the past any of Malvern's imports had a clause in their contract clearly outlining exactly what their role at the club was... Including junior coaching. If injury meant they missed games, junior coaching still applied. Part of this stated that any additional games for Claxton (or now Aces) could only be undertaken if agreed by the committee.
Unfortunately, the Sports visa legally covered this. Now that most players are on working holiday visas then they can decide what they do and don't do in this regard.
However, the contract would still allow a club to recover all expenses, cancel accommodation and quite literally put the import out on the street - but that's a tough spot for a club to be put in.
If BV are in fact trying to do this, then any signed contracts between clubs and players should be sent to BV with the club's official response. BV have no right to make demands or take further action against clubs or individuals. If they do then I strongly recommend all clubs getting a "class action" up and running.
If BV are demanding this, then they are effectively blackmailing and bullying clubs and I would recommend lodging a harassment claim with the ABF. If that fails, lawyer up!
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Post by stuartcapel on Sept 30, 2011 11:51:18 GMT 10
Barb, out of interest, I would imagine Malvern's import would have medical/health insurance provided by the club.
Under the insurance, is he covered if he is injured playing baseball for someone other than Malvern?
I would imagine he would have coverage if playing FOR the Aces as he'd be part of the roster, but in a friendly, would he be covered AGAINST them?
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Post by barb05 on Sept 30, 2011 12:02:48 GMT 10
Part of our contracts also request a player be privately covered. Yes they have the obligatory BV insurance offered through subs, however, if they do not have private personal injury cover and you are contracting them to your club then YOU BETTER PRAY THEY DON'T GET HURT! There's every chance they can sue your club for personal injury.
You need that clause saying "by signing this contract you agree to ensuring you have private health insurance at your own expense as xxxxx baseball club will not be responsible for any medical or personal injury expenses incurred through the activity agreed within this contract"
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Post by gj on Oct 3, 2011 8:15:18 GMT 10
Is one of the clubs jumping the gun, nominating their top 2 pitchers for the DP rule? Perhaps one may be leaving.
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Post by pirates on Dec 5, 2011 14:35:00 GMT 10
tell me it’s not so. I heard a disturbing rumour ( FACT) on Saturday night about one of the best things in Vic baseball coming to an end. If this is true(FACT) it’s a disgrace that some individuals within the baseball community would, over the social media, defame a very well respected individual. I understand that he has tendered his resignation to Baseball Victoria over this matter. And I believe has been accepted!!!!!!!! ? This pathetic issue needs to be investigated by Baseball Victoria and an attempt needs to be made to have the resignation with drawn NOW!!! The work that this individual has put into the reporting of events of our league has been outstanding and should not be just swept under the carpet. What makes this situation more concerning is that these people are officials of a club that benefits from the work this person has done to promote our game. The language used to describe this person is reprehensible and when asked for an apology from one “twit” after their statement was provide completely incorrect, the response has thus far not materialised. Bad day for baseball.
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Post by philallen on Dec 5, 2011 17:45:54 GMT 10
Pirates.........Lot's of empty spaces in your post but if I read between the lines you are saying that Kingsley Collins has resigned from his well respected role with Baseball Victoria. I'm unaware of the defamation that has taken place as this is about as close as I come to any "social media". But it will be a sorry day if we were to lose someone of Kingsley's ilk from the front lines. I have known Kingsley for well over 30 years, so if it is him of which you speak, I could probably be accused of some type of bias. On the other hand I, and many others I'm sure, do not stay in close contact with characters that are less that 1st class for that amount of time.
I'd like to hear more about this, not that it's any of my business in all actuality. But from a perspective of human decency I hate to think that we could loose a true servant of & to the game, one who has played, coached, mentored, administered & reported on the game, as well as sired 2 sons (that I know of!!) who have played and coached over extended periods....due to some ill considered comments over "social media"
Hopefully this situation can be resolved, but personally if those alledgedly laying the boots in cannot be pulled up by the powers that be, I'd tell 'em to get stuffed too.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2011 19:18:39 GMT 10
Thanks Soupy (I think).
Yes, I have informed Baseball Victoria that I will finish up my on-line role with the organisation at Christmas. This situation may have been avoided had a particular club or even BV taken action when they became aware of the problem some weeks ago.
While I have copped some sniping from a very small minority of the Victorian baseball community over the past couple of years for allegedly not looking after the interests of that minority to the extent that they believed I might, that has been manageable.
However, over the past couple of weeks, I have been subject to objectionable, potentially defamatory and quite unwarranted personal attack – via social media – coming from elements of an otherwise exemplary club.
I know it is easy to suggest just ignoring such crap, but this stuff goes online - to the world. It is a powerful and d**ning medium.
Among other pearls that have been cast, I am a “muppet”, I tell lies, I am doing “a grave disservice” to Victorian baseball by reporting in detail on the Melbourne Aces, I’m “not very professional” and I don’t report enough on women’s baseball among other things (although that task has never been part of my part-time brief).
All of Victorian women’s baseball should be “pissed off” with me (according to one online supporter) by my failure to report on a nomination for some women’s team award that I in fact knew nothing about until after the event. Even if it was more newsworthy than other happenings.
Most recently, it is suggested that I will cave into demands if people keep sniping. I have “potential”, it seems, and I can learn this writing gig in “baby steps” if I put my mind to it and if I “cut and paste” material that is written for me. Well, thanks.
While I realise that such nonsense seems to have been generated by one person, it strikes at the very heart of my credibility and my integrity as a writer, a baseball person and a human being. I’ve tried to reason with a couple of people, here, and I’ve tried to make them better understand the situation.
The response has been even more effort at trying to ridicule and humiliate me online with cheap condescending shots.
Most people understand and embrace the concept of the baseball “family”. Not in this case, it seems. This behaviour is the absolute antithesis of how people would or should treat those with a shared heritage and hopefully shared values.
There is a broader issue involved here. Hopefully this sorry saga will prompt governing bodies to address the matter of online accountability where it can apply jurisdiction. This sport struggles enough without having festering sores within its club ranks.
Independent as it is, this Forum treads a thin line, sometimes, between what is acceptable and what is not. People are entitled – and encouraged - to make criticism and to express their views on a whole range of matters, although we need always to mindful that such criticism should be factually-based, is impersonal to the degree that it can be and that it has the potential to lead to a constructive outcome.
There are no winners in this as far as Victorian baseball is concerned. But maybe some lessons can be learned.
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Post by p26 on Dec 5, 2011 20:09:43 GMT 10
This is absolutely disgraceful. We will now go from "insufficient" coverage of women's baseball (a notion with which i totally disagree, but for the saake of the argument.....) but fantastic coverage of Aces and Div 1 and 2 Summer League, to no coveage....of anything.....at all....oh wait, except the cricket.
Without knowing any facts beyond what has been written here, and with no reason to believe otherwise, I feel that Doncaster Baseball Club should sanction this person immediately, publish a formal apology on any and all mediums that were used to criticise in the first place and request kc to be reinstated.
I would be comfortable if Doncaster had some speific concerns that were raised in a professional manner, but the above is an absolute abomination.
Beyond angry. This is totally infuriating.
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Post by p26 on Dec 5, 2011 20:11:07 GMT 10
oh, and for what it's worth, i've never met kc and know only of him via this forum and what i read on the bv, vic summer league and aces websites.
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Post by wako on Dec 5, 2011 20:25:18 GMT 10
This is absolutely disgraceful. We will now go from "insufficient" coverage of women's baseball (a notion with which i totally disagree, but for the saake of the argument.....) but fantastic coverage of Aces and Div 1 and 2 Summer League, to no coveage....of anything.....at all....oh wait, except the cricket. Without knowing any facts beyond what has been written here, and with no reason to believe otherwise, I feel that Doncaster Baseball Club should sanction this person immediately, publish a formal apology on any and all mediums that were used to criticise in the first place and request kc to be reinstated. I would be comfortable if Doncaster had some speific concerns that were raised in a professional manner, but the above is an absolute abomination. Beyond angry. This is totally infuriating. Yes, infuriating is a good word. I haven't seen the statements in question, but I will say that there is no need for any one person to cover every single happening in organised baseball in the state. KC is already, I'm sure, quite busy enough covering what he does, and extremely well - among the best sports writers I've read, and that includes all the major commercial ones. The case can certainly be made that there is insufficient coverage of women's baseball and I don't disagree, but it is completely unreasonable to assume that it is KC's sole responsibility on top of everything else, and beyond unreasonable to seek remedy (or retribution for some imagined sins) in ad hominem. oh, and for what it's worth, i've never met kc and know only of him via this forum and what i read on the bv, vic summer league and aces websites. I highly recommend it - well worth your while.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2011 20:26:36 GMT 10
This comment might upset people, but who cares. KC your informative pre seasons write ups and match reports will be missed. The person from Doncaster should hang their head in shame.
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Post by p26 on Dec 5, 2011 20:29:40 GMT 10
i thought chardy was going to be the first one to write that whoswingsit, haha.
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Post by wako on Dec 5, 2011 20:59:20 GMT 10
I found what I believe are probably the statements in question. They do not name KC personally, but complain of BV not putting up articles "written for them" and that the women could be covered if the time spent explaining why that is not being done at the moment was spent on covering them, and that "they" are "muppets".
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2011 21:06:57 GMT 10
wako, while I fully accept and respect your desire to be objective in this matter, I'd suggest that you contact Baseball Victoria to get an overview.
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Post by behindthedish on Dec 5, 2011 21:12:39 GMT 10
I too am in disbelief and disappointed with the posts above. I have known KC for a long time and played against him many years ago. He is honest, highly intellectual and a d**n good sports writer. We will miss his informative reports, due to the selfishness of others, who should be ashamed of themselves.
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Post by wako on Dec 5, 2011 21:14:05 GMT 10
wako, while I fully accept and respect your desire to be objective in this matter, I'd suggest that you contact Baseball Victoria to get full transcripts of all messages and all comments recently made - including emails (both to me and to BV) and obnoxious Twitter remarks that were subsequently taken down. Sorry KC. I did consider qualifying my post with "...assuming nothing has been deleted and assuming there is no more to it than what I found" but thought that was possibly implied by "what I believe to be..". On reflection that was not clear at all.
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Post by wearnie52 on Dec 5, 2011 21:28:12 GMT 10
As a women's baseball player, coach and administrator, I am embarrassed by the things I am reading on this thread. This is yet another situation where women's baseball has been brought up for all the wrong reasons.
KC, please know you are very well respected, and that your weekly reports will certainly be missed by many.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2011 21:42:03 GMT 10
I appreciate your remarks, Simone, and I acknowledge the positive and ongoing contribution that your wonderful family has made to Australian baseball - men's and women's.
I am also embarrassed - and pretty pissed off - about how this silly and totally unnecessary situation has unfolded.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2011 21:46:22 GMT 10
I'm speechless... This is a terrible thing to happen to Victorian Baseball (and that's putting it nicely).
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Post by texasleaguer on Dec 5, 2011 22:02:48 GMT 10
As an outsider to VIC baseball politics and inner workings, all I can say is that I would be very disappointed to lose a baseball person of KC's obvious dedication, integrity, passion, knowledge and media talent in reporting the game.
You can always move to QLD KC mate, apparently we allow 3 or 4 hand picked VIC immigrants per year !.. You are in mate !!!
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bfg
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Post by bfg on Dec 5, 2011 22:12:55 GMT 10
I have been playing baseball for almost as long as I've been able to walk and have loved the game since day one. For the first time in my life, I feel appalled and ashamed to be a part of the women's baseball community and to be associated with the aforementioned individuals. But that is all the are: individuals. One or two poorly opinionated "muppets" (to use their own word), and by no means do they represent the ideas and opinions of the rest of us involved in women's baseball.
I'm not sure why it is that we keep allowing one or two people to have such a prominent voice and cause such detrimental affect on so many others.
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Post by wako on Dec 6, 2011 8:29:03 GMT 10
wako, while I fully accept and respect your desire to be objective in this matter, I'd suggest that you contact Baseball Victoria to get an overview, including full transcripts of all messages and all comments recently made - including emails (both to me and to BV) and obnoxious Twitter remarks that were subsequently taken down today. Email sent to BV, eagerly awaiting reply. Again, I apologise if what I wrote appeared to cast doubt on what you've said, my aim was only to describe what I found, which as I said, I should have qualified as not necessarily representing the entire story.
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Post by alancollins on Dec 6, 2011 9:13:08 GMT 10
As a first time poster, I hope the long-standing and active forum members have no issue with me coming down from my seat in the bleachers to pass comment on this issue.
I, for one, will be glad to see the back of KC. Not only has he not devoted 90% of his time to a women's league that accounts for maybe 5% or 10% of Victoria's baseball participants, but he also neglected to provide comprehensive coverage of the weekend's blockbuster U/12 clash at Timbuktoo - a result I was really sweating on since I'd got on the home side at $8 on Sportsbet. Add to this that he also overlooked providing detailed reports from last week's round of Masters, and failed to even mention the nailbiting result in a T-Ball match out Dandenong way.
Going by the overwhelming support shown here towards KC, there appears no need for me to further highlight his credibility and respected standing within the baseball community. However, since he would undoubtedly be far too professional and dignified to raise some of the points below, I thought I would take a trip into martydom for him and clarify some points.
Terms such as "employment", "resignation" and "notice period" all suggest that KC has been a full-time employee of Baseball Victoria, enjoying such perks as a corner office, free Tim Tams and four weeks annual leave at the expense of fee paying clubs, tax payers and corporate benefactors. The reality is that KC is essentially a volunteer who is paid a nominal fee each season, which goes a long way towards covering his substantial expenses, but does not even begin to cover the countless hours of work which I estimate to be 60 hours per week plus during summer. The excellent coverage you see for the Melbourne Aces and other items of baseball interest are merely done in aid of the promotion of baseball as a sport. And he does this for the same reason that Melbourne Aces players and coaches forego work (and salary) in order to participate in games, and for the same reason that hundreds of people across the state dedicate their time to coaching juniors or administering clubs - for the love and betterment of the game.
One irony of this situation is that the individual at the centre of this matter has ended up merely taking the p!ss out of the game she was apparently trying to promote. The other irony is that KC had an agreement with Baseball Victoria to provide coverage for the Men's Summer League, and any other coverage afforded to our sport was done so through his good will and interest in the growth of baseball at all levels.
Oh, you may have caught on by my username that I am the third son of KC, and a winter baseballer of no note, repute, credibility or talent - but nonetheless a fan. As one of the many avid readers of the vast baseball coverage provided by BV, I am disappointed by this matter. As a family member, I encourage the individual in question to remember that family sticks together, not just the blood-related but the broader baseball "family".
Not having the marbles (so to speak) to pick up the phone instead of posting snide, offensive and defamatory Tweets shows the same courage and character as someone who leaves a flaming turd on someone elses doorstep and runs off.
I trust that the respected organisations of Baseball Victoria and Doncaster Baseball Club will act swiftly and with maximum force to address this issue. If they don't, then whoever is leading the Sunshine Band to have this parasite run out of town, please accept my application to join.
Before I return to my spot in the nosebleeds, I'd like to send a big good on ya to the women's baseballers who have commented on this thread - I am sure decent people like yourselves will prevent any lasting damage being done to the reputation of women's baseball from this whole sordid issue.
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Post by bundysundy on Dec 6, 2011 9:23:20 GMT 10
I cannot believe what i have just read. None of us have any reason to doubt the version of events that KC has documented.
Surely if this uncalled for personal abuse was known weeks ago something could of been done to halt this outrageous attack on such a respected and revered part of the Victorian Baseball Community.
The Doncaster Baseball Club should immediately cease the membership of this women in question. Surely this is the only option if the club wants to salvage any respect.
I believe that you know KC, that this is the smallest of minorities opinion of your coverage of the weekly wrap. I was just thinking the other week how lucky I am to be able to read in as much detail as you write with regards to Women Baseball considering where it is currently at.
The person who thinks that the coverage of women's baseball in the weekly wrap is such a big issue as to make such remarks is either severely misguided or just plainly dissolutional.
Now i really don't have any reason to go to work on a Monday.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2011 9:27:54 GMT 10
Im keen to know what has gone on here that has one of Victorian baseball's most committed and respected individuals feeling the way that he appears to be feeling at the moment. Clearly something DISGRACEFUL has gone on here and questions need to be asked and answered. I am joining the dots and am pretty sure who this is that has created all this but perhaps Im wrong and perhaps some of our Doncaster Forum members can add some light or any other perspective here (Stockley Hightower ?) as to what the hell is going on.
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Post by Chilli Wil on Dec 6, 2011 17:19:00 GMT 10
Silly Puma naming names...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2011 17:29:09 GMT 10
As I indicated earlier that I was going to do, I've deleted the other thread relating to my position with Baseball Victoria.
Even though I very much appreciate the support, I did so because I felt that people had had a chance to express a view and that we were going over the same ground. Apart from that, I feel somewhat embarrassed with all the attention.
I am not quite sure what "youngster" was implying in his or her initial post. But if you have something to say about the "other side to this story" (whatever it might be), then please share it with us, preferably with your name attached.
To all, please remember that this mess was brought about by a very small representative sample of the club mentioned. Doncaster is one of Victoria's best and most highly respected baseball clubs. Let us not allow this to in any way tarnish the club's reputation.
In further comment I would ask that you not name any person or persons known to be involved. I reckon by now that one person at least has copped enough of a reality check that we do not need to put any name up in lights for all the world to see.
Finally, Baseball Victoria has spoken to the person involved. Whether that achieves anything or not only time will tell. I'm not quite sure what Doncaster can do, if anything - although I know that the Club President is deeply concerned and is fully supportive of the reporting work that BV has sought to provide.
And if it sounds like I'm in forgiving mood..... :mad:
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