|
|
Post by aueagle30 on Mar 7, 2012 15:02:39 GMT 10
Surprised this hasn't been raised sooner... I've attached BV's latest proposal regarding the development of baseball into regional areas... Some highlights of the proposal: - Asking amatuer athletes, who already pay approx. $500/season for the privilege of playing baseball, and, in the case of Geelong players, already travel more than 3000 km/season and already contribute to baseball in a regional community, to travel to other regional areas, on their own dollar, to promote baseball.
- For the third time in the past three seasons, another 'valid' reason for the scrapping of Reserve grade (including 3rd's/4th's) games. When this was first done in the 2009-2010 season to accomodate the Aces in playing home finals in the Claxton Shield, we were told it was a drastic step taken to accomodate such a major event in the context of baseball in Victoria.
- An assumption that feedback provided by the hard-working volunteer administrators of our club would be frivilous and insincere. Of course, no-one would ever be accused of that after the fact, but hopefully it prevents some people from providing unwelcome feeback along the way.
- The use of a false dichotomy to create a 'stand by us or stand against us' dilemma. Either we agree this is the best way to develop baseball in regional areas, or we admit to being unwilling to promote baseball in regional areas.
- The use of undefined revenue possibilities (with $0 being a possibility) and uncosted promotional/development programs to convince us of the merits of the program and act as an incentive for amatuer baseball players and administrators to put their hands in their pockets again and give up more of their lives for the good of baseball.
Based on the proposal as it's been presented, the Geelong Baseball Club has strongly rejected both the idea and the assumptions made within the proposal. Interested to hear feedback from other Division One clubs and know if we stand alone or others feel similarly. Please note, this is not a reflection on our support of baseball in regional areas. We believe the regional areas are important and we're prepared to engage in the development of effective strategies for assiting those regions. Attachments:
|
|
|
|
Post by MF on Mar 7, 2012 15:39:51 GMT 10
- For the third time in the past three seasons, another 'valid' reason for the scrapping of Reserve grade (including 3rd's/4th's) games. When this was first done in the 2009-2010 season to accomodate the Aces in playing home finals in the Claxton Shield, we were told it was a drastic step taken to accomodate such a major event in the context of baseball in Victoria.
Not just 3rds and 4ths. All senior games (including women) other than Div. 1/2 Firsts cancelled. (Ooops, sorry: "will not have games scheduled on the same weekend".) And perhaps juniors too ... the "etc" in the proposal might be aimed at them. That's 99 teams (12*3 + 14*2 + 8 + 8 + 8 + 11)... over 1000 players that BV is telling to get stuffed? Again??! Year in, year out VBA/BV management demonstrate over and over and over again exactly what they think of the players they purportedly represent. If it's not Div 1/2 Firsts, they do not care and never have. Agreed 100%. Ditto development of the Aces and the ABL. Ditto junior development. Ditto women's development. They're all important, and I support the development of them all. But perhaps one day BV can find a way that to drive development that is NOT at the cost of their existing constituency. . . . <crickets> |
|
|
|
Post by Goblin on Mar 7, 2012 19:40:46 GMT 10
Surprised this hasn't been raised sooner... I've attached BV's latest proposal regarding the development of baseball into regional areas... Some highlights of the proposal: - Asking amatuer athletes, who already pay approx. $500/season for the privilege of playing baseball, and, in the case of Geelong players, already travel more than 3000 km/season and already contribute to baseball in a regional community, to travel to other regional areas, on their own dollar, to promote baseball.
- For the third time in the past three seasons, another 'valid' reason for the scrapping of Reserve grade (including 3rd's/4th's) games. When this was first done in the 2009-2010 season to accomodate the Aces in playing home finals in the Claxton Shield, we were told it was a drastic step taken to accomodate such a major event in the context of baseball in Victoria.
- An assumption that feedback provided by the hard-working volunteer administrators of our club would be frivilous and insincere. Of course, no-one would ever be accused of that after the fact, but hopefully it prevents some people from providing unwelcome feeback along the way.
- The use of a false dichotomy to create a 'stand by us or stand against us' dilemma. Either we agree this is the best way to develop baseball in regional areas, or we admit to being unwilling to promote baseball in regional areas.
- The use of undefined revenue possibilities (with $0 being a possibility) and uncosted promotional/development programs to convince us of the merits of the program and act as an incentive for amatuer baseball players and administrators to put their hands in their pockets again and give up more of their lives for the good of baseball.
Based on the proposal as it's been presented, the Geelong Baseball Club has strongly rejected both the idea and the assumptions made within the proposal. Interested to hear feedback from other Division One clubs and know if we stand alone or others feel similarly. Please note, this is not a reflection on our support of baseball in regional areas. We believe the regional areas are important and we're prepared to engage in the development of effective strategies for assiting those regions. ![]() www.essendonbaseball.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/like.gif{/img] 100% agree Nathan To keep things short I will just say to BV 2 words ------ Get Stuffed Regardless of pros and cons of what is proposed, I totally reject having the following attached to it as part of the process. If not in agreement with what they are proposing then the club person signing this, is required to tick the box of the following. On behalf of our club, I acknowledge our lack of willingness to promote baseball in regional areas, and therefore wish the Summer League Committee to not schedule the Regional Round. I repeat BV, get stuffed. I am flabbergasted, (and that rarely, if ever has occurred in the past), that they could include such inflammatory wording on any “discussion” document. |
|
|
|
Post by The Joker on Mar 7, 2012 19:55:19 GMT 10
Wow. Just wow. I've been accused of being a little inflammatory at times, but wow. I'm flabbergasted.
|
|
|
|
Post by p26 on Mar 7, 2012 21:15:11 GMT 10
I can't even........
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2012 21:29:18 GMT 10
I'm more than happy for Malvern to play a game in Shepparton next season!
|
|
|
|
Post by wako on Mar 7, 2012 21:41:44 GMT 10
Besides the obvious riposte to the effect of "go forth and multiply", the essence of my response is: WHY?
What research has BV conducted to determine the level of interest in seeing a Division 1 Summer League game in any of these regions? What makes them think that the good people of, say, Warrnambool, where there is no local winter league, will turn out to see say, Geelong v Essendon, particularly if there is local cricket on that day? Even if 200 people turn up (which would result in the amusing spectacle of several hats being eaten, I'm sure), how will that help Warrnambool start a local league?
These regions that don't have baseball competitions - do they have grounds where Division 1 baseball can be (safely) played? Will one of the local cricket clubs agree to have an oval turned into a makeshift baseball field for the sake of one or two games? What about backnets? I'll admit I'm not an expert on backnets, much less portable ones, but I'll assume that when pitchers are throwing up around 90 MPH and batters who can hit it 400ft are swinging hard, it's quite a different issue to that of marking out a little league field on some unoccupied patch of grass and sticking a couple of nets behind it or even just marking an out of play line and having parents form a barrier behind it.
What exactly is the purpose of cancelling all other baseball on those weeks? Is there some tacit expectation that players in other grades will make the treks as well? Is that some lame attempt to guarantee an attendance of at least somewhere close to 50, for publicity purposes? How would the attendance of people who already play and/or watch baseball advance the stated cause of promoting baseball in regional Victoria? Either that or it's just contempt, which from the wording of the memo, is quite easy to infer. Nate, feel free to suggest to BV that players of grades with games cancelled on this idiotic whim pay their fees pro rata. I won't pay to play a game that BV cancels "just 'cause".
Oh, and my favourite one:
What if it rains?
|
|
|
|
Post by dickieknee on Mar 7, 2012 22:17:12 GMT 10
I am a 3's player at best. If it is a choice of supporting my 1's team in country Vic or having the day off.......I'll have the day off!
IF HOWEVER, there was box scores like the ones the ABL provided then I would be regularly viewing them.
Not with the 1's in body for that game but always with them in spirit.
|
|
|
|
Post by Marshy on Mar 8, 2012 7:36:26 GMT 10
Do I like the idea? No, especially the extra $$$ out of my pocket and the lost games.
Do I think the rest of my club mates would like it? Probably not.
However, credit where credit is due, a bad idea is better than no idea at all.
BV may have missed the mark with this one, however I like the fact that they are trying something different. Remember this isn't a mandate, it's a proposal. We all are guilty of BV bashing at times. How about instead of shooting the proposal down and knocking those trying to instigate change, you respond with a "No, I don't think that will work for our club, however if you did.....<insert positive suggestion>".
This forum has a plethora of baseball experience. Couple that with experience from a vast range of backgrounds, careers etc and I am sure we could come up with a better proposal.
Our governing body can't improve if we don't show/suggest to them how.
|
|
|
|
Post by stuartcapel on Mar 8, 2012 8:03:04 GMT 10
I will go as far as saying this is a decent initiative, though it does seem that there needs to be some further planning to be done surrounding the logistics of the cause.
Premier Cricket has enjoyed a successful venture with their country week, with near fifty venues having hosted matches between metropolitan teams over the past few years, and no doubt BV is looking towards something similar.
Do we have enough venues in regional Victoria to cover the games? I'm not sure, but I would suggest Ballarat (to use an example) could host a 'Super Saturday' and if really well supported locally, would be a big boost to a potential Ballarat teams presence in the Summer League in years to come.
As Melbourne expands (Cranbourne and Pakenham were once regional, now they are effectively outer suburbs of Melbourne), and the population spreads, reaching out to country areas is a solid suggestion. Yes, perhaps the idea needs further refinement, but it is an idea worth exploring.
|
|
|
|
Post by stockley on Mar 8, 2012 9:23:20 GMT 10
I have to agree with Goblin. The fact they include accusational wording for declining the idea is ridiculous.
On behalf of our club, I acknowledge our lack of willingness to promote baseball in regional areas, and
Especially after including this earlier:
So, they expect the costs of travel, accommodation and meals to be borne by the players (lets face it, the club isn't and shouldn't have to cover this), to help develop the sport in regional areas? So on top of paying fees across all grades (part of which should automatically be earmarked for the development of the sport) - most of the players don't get to play, and the lucky few who do play get to pay extra to go away to play in another area?
And then they ask you if you have a lack of willingness? H3ll no. Maybe I have a lack of money - maybe my 1sts squad can't afford a trip away! Maybe the concept doesn't sit well as the best way to develop the sport. And this regional round is pretty much guaranteed that it will be sold to the councils, based on the wording of that memo - SMA sells these sort of things to councils. So the money it gets sold for goes into BV, while the players across all grades are duped? Not to mention the clubs losing revenue from canteens, etc while they run this.
Marshy, they're not putting it out there as a proposal. It reads more like a mandate. If it was a proposal, it seems to me there would be more questioning the validity of the concept - ie. would your club support the concept of running a regional round - not where are you going to play? Also, just out of interest sakes, a bad idea is certainly worse then no idea at all. Businesses have been shutdown due to bad ideas and changing the way things are done for them.
Stuart - regional cricket is one thing - any country family will go down to watch a cricket game. And there are clubs/grounds in the local area to play at. What does the country kid do if he comes down the baseball - and says I really want to play? Do we expect him to take up with the closet metro team? Or are we only playing in areas with Winter teams? (serious question, I really don't know). Setting up the grounds, etc, would be a pretty major task I would have thought
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2012 10:23:44 GMT 10
I agree that some of the wording in the memorandum is unfortunate, but it should not be allowed to detract from the merits of the proposal.
On the “mid-to late January” timing. Senior competition resumed this year on 15 January. No juniors, no Masters. The first week after the break is historically difficult for most clubs in terms of player availability. I seem to recall BV receiving plaudits, this time, for waiving any penalty for a side that was forced to give a walkover.
Yes, the lower grades and the women’s would miss a game. If objections were as strong as indicated here, maybe that could be made up at another date, in some other way.
Why not Geelong? Quite simply, because Geelong already has a strong baseball presence and will be hosting its share of home and away games anyhow.
Why only the firsts sides? First, because the highest level of baseball being played (other than the Aces) is surely what we want people in the regional centres to see. The games will need to showcase the best players in the sport – otherwise there is little point. Secondly, limiting squads to fifteen or sixteen players and officials will keep costs down.
Impact on rainouts/washouts. Summer League was badly affected this season and there were no reschedules. Playing a regional series (or two I think it was suggested) will potentially free up the draw a little (maybe a couple less midweekers) so that reschedules may then be considered.
On grounds. Players should not and would not be asked to play on cow paddocks. Ballarat, Bendigo, Latrobe Valley, Sunraysia and Northeastern at the very least could provide decent playing surfaces and more than adequate facilities.
Cost to players and clubs is the major sticking-point. Yes, baseball is already expensive enough to play and we should always be seeking to minimise rather than increase costs. However, from what I recall reading in the memorandum, Baseball Victoria is talking about working in partnership with a particular advisory group and with local councils. It is feasible that local sponsorships could be secured. BV does not rule out making a contribution itself.
Aueagle30 says that financial support might amount to nothing. Theoretically, yes, but we’re never going to know if we don’t give it a dash. All costs may be able to be covered. Councils like Ballarat are intensely interested in drawing significant sporting events – especially in a case, like theirs, where they have already made a huge investment in baseball.
Travel costs would not be significantly more than clubs travelling across town. A night’s accommodation in a motel or caravan park, with a few meals, is not going to require a huge outlay overall. More than that, the experience could potentially be good for team morale and relationships between clubs who would be able to get together socially – if they chose – on the Saturday night.
The over-riding purpose of the Regional Round would be to promote baseball in the country. Hopefully BV would choose to organise for a couple of development people (maybe a few Melbourne Aces) to arrive on the Friday, maybe run a Come and Try session during the day (school holidays), do a spot with the local media and generally get out in the community to drum up support for the weekend’s games.
In Ballarat, for instance, the overwhelming majority of residents – young and old – would never have seen Victorian club baseball played at its highest level. This could provide a massive boost to the sport’s profile.
There is a “Country Baseball” thread running concurrently with this one. Promoting the sport in regional centres and making it a viable option for young people is an ongoing challenge. Any in-principle initiative such as this should be applauded and at least given serious, thoughtful consideration, regardless of some wording to which we might take exception.
|
|
|
|
Post by wako on Mar 8, 2012 11:27:33 GMT 10
I don't object to the concept of a regional round, but this specific proposal, on the information provided, appears to have serious flaws. Yes, we could use our collective wisdom to provide advice to BV, but they aren't soliciting any. They have a proposal and are asking clubs "yea or nay".
Yes, it works well in Premier Cricket, because they are playing in regions that already have a strong cricket presence, often, the clubs playing have players that come from the area.
My reference to rain was not in relation to the impact on the ladder, but rather, the potential to see time and money (travel, venue setup, etc) wasted. Of course, rain could come any time anywhere, but this is not mentioned in the memo and there doesn't seem a lot of scope for contingency plans that don't involve either considering all the expenses lost or dragging everyone back out to the venue again later (accepting again, the risk of rain).
|
|
|
|
Post by aueagle30 on Mar 8, 2012 11:41:52 GMT 10
Premier Cricket has enjoyed a successful venture with their country week, with near fifty venues having hosted matches between metropolitan teams over the past few years, and no doubt BV is looking towards something similar. Stu, our Winter Championships are the baseball equivalent of cricket's country week... these have been played in regional areas for more than 50 years. How about instead of shooting the proposal down and knocking those trying to instigate change, you respond with a "No, I don't think that will work for our club, however if you did.....<insert positive suggestion>". Our governing body can't improve if we don't show/suggest to them how. I agree that some of the wording in the memorandum is unfortunate, but it should not be allowed to detract from the merits of the proposal. Marshy/KC, I don't begrudge BV the opportunity to come up with a bad idea (and this is a bad idea). But when they attempt to enforce a bad policy through coercion and duress, surely our response must first deal with the unnecessary and demeaning manner in which the idea is proposed? Bad ideas often form the foundation for good ideas... bad governance will always lead to bad outcomes... surely it's time our sport expected more, no? |
|
|
|
Post by Marshy on Mar 8, 2012 11:51:15 GMT 10
Wako, I agree that the memo really is a "Yay or Nay" form, however that doesn't stop us offering our suggestions as attachments or more as I intended, via this forum. Trust me, BV read this.
Slade, a bad idea only has ramifications if it becomes reality. At this stage, this is still JUST an idea. Nothing has been imposed, despite the tone.
Please don't get me wrong, I have no love for BV. Ask anyone from the Blackburn or Malvern second nine if they think BV are doing a good job...however, I am starting to tire from all the "stone throwing" I read on here.
It's easy to just sit back and ridicule/insult/shoot down/dismiss/bad mouth. Far too much of it happens. What's much more of a challenge and far more constructive is come up with other, better ideas.
I am sure we all work with a person who whinges all the time? Don't you just feel like saying to them "Shut up. If you don't like it, do something about it! Quit, go work somewhere else, retire, or best yet, go make a change"
Maybe a better idea is to arrange a bus/several to visit these communities, load up and bring them back to Melbourne to showcase a game. Obviously it would need to be well advertised, but why take the mountain to Mohamed when we can do the reverse? You could have special guests (aces players??) travel with each bus, delivering a presentation and answering questions on the way.
Sure this idea has holes, but before you poke them, consider, what have YOU offered that's better? If the answer is "nothing" then you add no value at all, you've just wasted people's time to read, bytes of storage space and the time it took you to type.
|
|
|
|
Post by Marshy on Mar 8, 2012 12:05:41 GMT 10
.. surely it's time our sport expected more, no? Agree 100% - but it appears they need some help. |
|
|
|
Post by aueagle30 on Mar 8, 2012 12:11:12 GMT 10
Cost to players and clubs is the major sticking-point. Travel costs would not be significantly more than clubs travelling across town. A night’s accommodation in a motel or caravan park, with a few meals, is not going to require a huge outlay overall. More than that, the experience could potentially be good for team morale and relationships between clubs who would be able to get together socially – if they chose – on the Saturday night. KC, are you basing your assessments of the costs not requiring 'a huge outlay' on your own financial means? What about an apprentice who lives at home? Or a full-time uni student? Or someone who is unemployed? Or an U/18-U/16 who has just completed the National Championships in early Jan, and whose parents have just spent $3000 for that privilege? From my current squad of 21 players that have played Div 1 1st's this year, 10 players fit into one of these categories and I know would find it difficult to cover the costs. Just as BV has done, I think it's unfair to assume because these costs don't seem like a 'huge outlay' to you, so it is for everyone. |
|
|
|
Post by stuartcapel on Mar 8, 2012 12:19:58 GMT 10
Say 'Country Week' to anyone in Victorian cricket and they will relate it to the tournament where teams from the country come to Melbourne for a tournament (through various grades). I had the pleasure of umpiring several country week games - good groups and good cricket played.
Yes the wording isn't correct in regards BV looking to instigate a 'Country Round', however I am certain our respective clubs committee's and delegates can work around that well enough if they want to.
One game a year? This cannot be worked out to the better of baseball and to it's subscribers? Are we not that good enough to get this right at a level that will please the masses?
Surely we can work around the logistics of rain outs (if enough clubs petition to have firsts rain outs replayed then BV can't say no) and travel (KC has helped with this) and other things - just takes people to sit around and work everything out properly.
With the Melbourne Aces and ideas like this, the avenues are being built to promote and prosper the game of baseball, yet people just want to put up road blocks, without offering anything in return. I can't comprehend why.
|
|
|
|
Post by aueagle30 on Mar 8, 2012 12:30:07 GMT 10
However, from what I recall reading in the memorandum, Baseball Victoria is talking about working in partnership with a particular advisory group and with local councils. It is feasible that local sponsorships could be secured. BV does not rule out making a contribution itself. Aueagle30 says that financial support might amount to nothing. Theoretically, yes, but we’re never going to know if we don’t give it a dash. All costs may be able to be covered. Actually KC, the proposal outlines two possible expense streams where the revenue will be applied... the first is promotion/development, the second was to offset costs... this was clarified in an email that stated the revenue would be "fed back into the sport through promotion and if possible supplementing costs of the club." I'm happy to accept your premise we won't know till we give it a go... but since we (the amatuer players and clubs) are being asked to invest the capital to make this program viable, here are the questions I think BV should answer before asking us for feedback: - We currently invest in Baseball Victoria on an annual basis. Where is our money currently being spent and why does it require greater investment on our part to develop your product in regional areas?
- Can you provide a detailed outline of the promotional/development activities you’re planning in the regional areas and the relevant costs?
- Since promotion/development is undefined in your submission, this expense could be ongoing and require ongoing funding. What percentage of revenue will be set aside for offsetting costs to ensure both are accounted for?
- What is your projected range of revenue? Your current submission doesn’t provide any relevant detail; could it in fact provide zero revenue?
- Can you confirm you’re intention to conduct these promotional/development activities regardless of the revenue generated by this program?
KC, based on the current proposal, it seems BV are asking the amateur clubs/athletes to increase their current investment into the sport so they can have the opportunity to raise additional revenue. Where is the risk being taken on the part of BV? If SMA are unsuccessful in their push for funding, what has BV lost? Other than maybe a number of amatuer players who have seen their time and money wasted... |
|
|
|
Post by aueagle30 on Mar 8, 2012 12:33:33 GMT 10
With the Melbourne Aces and ideas like this, the avenues are being built to promote and prosper the game of baseball, yet people just want to put up road blocks, without offering anything in return. I can't comprehend why. Stu, when are the Melbourne Aces scheduled to play in regional areas (not Geelong) next year? And why does the good of the game always come at an additional cost to the average joe? |
|
|
|
Post by aueagle30 on Mar 8, 2012 12:46:22 GMT 10
Please don't get me wrong, I have no love for BV. Marshy, I have an enormous amount of love for Baseball Victoria and for baseball in our state... I've committed my life to it for the past 10 years and I want nothing more than for it to grow and prosper. I have been a staunch defender of BV in the past when I believed their policies are strong and will continue to support and defend them in the future. But on this issue, I'm devastated by their demeaning of the club administrators and players. I'm heartbroken that this is how our governing body approaches the people that give of themselves freely for the greater good of our sport. I expect more than to have it assumed our feedback is anything less than valuable and significant. I expect more than to be coerced into a program I disagree with. Please understand, this proposal has now established a pattern with the current BV administration... agree with their ideas or face their consequences... Remember the original proposal for the pre-season All-Star game... provide the required players or face punishment (although it was never published to the masses, the intended punishment was a $500 fine... fact) Now if you don't agree with this program, or even if you can't financially support this program, you're labeled as "unwilling to promote baseball into regional areas". Forget the idea, good or bad, this type of governance cannot be ignored or accepted. |
|
|
|
Post by homer29 on Mar 8, 2012 12:47:20 GMT 10
The country idea has alot of merit given there is a strong baseball history in regional Victoria however in those regions, baseball is a winter sport and isnt that the reason Provincial baseball runs the tournaments at the regional centres during the winter?
Generally speaking baseball clubs predominantly run on revenue generated from players participating (fees) and revenue generated from club functions/canteen/sponsorship.
So to promote the game, the clubs who put the game on are losing a few thousand dollars in revenue which some desperately need to survive.
Plus the players who someone mentioned pay up to 500 a year in fees/subs an extra 500 for fuel/ accomodation/ time off work to promote the game and their club receives nothing in return other than goodwill. I know where I'd rather that extra $500 in financial times such as these.
The wording from Baseball Victoria on the memo needed to be read before sending. That is not the wording that should be expected to be distributed to the members for which they are the adminstrator and governor.
All that has been achieved is the people in the game have got their back up as a result as they are not able to give honest appraisal without fear.
In the previous ABL, there was never a time where lower grades got called off and back then with multiple teams there were ABL games in Melbourne every weekend.
Most people would rather take a day completely off baseball if the chance arose than go to the Showgrounds unless they are diehards. That is no reflection on the product the Aces are supplying, but more an indication of the times in which we live.
Given that the lower grades only play 18 games as it is, reducing their load by a further 5 games (approx) makes participation for a lower level player alot less enticing to spend their hard earned to play.
Promotion of the ABL should focus on generating new people becoming interested in the game rather than milking the already converted and potentially lowering the participation rate in the sport, which as most division 2 clubs are finding, it is difficult to maintain the requirements to be eligible to compete at the highest level, even if good enough.
|
|
|
|
Post by aueagle30 on Mar 8, 2012 12:58:06 GMT 10
One game a year? This cannot be worked out to the better of baseball and to it's subscribers? Are we not that good enough to get this right at a level that will please the masses? Stu, I would have (and still will) given serious consideration to an offer to take the Geelong Baycats to a regional area for a Div 1 game. For chrissake, we took our team to Canada to promote our brand and our club! The greater issue (to me) is the governance of our sport, not the idea... But while I'm thinking of the idea... when 9 of the 13 teams in Div 2 (I've excluded Waverley) don't have the junior requirements for promotion to Div 1, why has this focus on regional areas gained traction? Not to say it should be ignored, but I bet some current Div 1 and Div 2 clubs would love some additional focus in their areas on promotion and development?  |
|
|
|
Post by braves6 on Mar 8, 2012 12:58:18 GMT 10
Im not getting into the whole "letter of offer"/"Yay/Nay" thing but coming from country vic and having an association with Latrobe Valley i find this a fairly exciting time for BV to try and introduce something like this. We have had whispers down our way for a couple of years now that BV would like us to submit a LV Club into the summer competition and this could be one way of getting that off the ground. We have a couple of grounds here that could and would host summer games in "Country Round" as for accommodation if you want to bring your caravans, tents whatever im on more than enough land that clubs could stay at my place at NO charge. i live within 20 minutes from either of our proposed grounds for use. Bring a Melbourne Ace or two we would get you 50 juniors in a heartbeat to turn up for some sort of clinic (and some seniors) but this could really benefit OUR sport especially if we could get a summer club going from this.
|
|
|
|
Post by stuartcapel on Mar 8, 2012 13:13:28 GMT 10
Simple question Auseagle - lets work on the basis that there is a stand alone weekend for Division One firsts next season (for sake of the example say, the second Saturday in January).
What would be your objection to the Geelong Baseball Club playing Essendon Baseball Club in a 4pm game at Ballarat, with another match (perhaps Sunshine should they get promoted and Werribee) fixtured to commence at 1pm to make part of a double-header for the people of Ballarat and it's surrounding towns?
|
|
|
|
Post by gj on Mar 8, 2012 13:21:38 GMT 10
I couldn't actually understand the negativity towards this proposal - until I read the actual BV proposal. As has been previously mentioned the VCA hold a very successful country round, but this proposal doesn't seem as inviting. Travelling for a day to most centres is quite easy (hell, I lived in Bendigo for 2 full seasons playing at Preston)- clubs can treat it as an end of season trip, but when you get overnights in centres like Mildura it gets to something totally different.
The biggest problem I have with the whole thing is BV have gone down the ABF path of SELLING tournaments and events. The ABF have turned themselves into a travel agency and I don't see any evidence of the profits being returned to those that generate it for them.
BV are making money out of this, will the clubs be reimbursed for their, and their players extra costs - I doubt it.
I would love to see it happen, great for Country Baseball but get it right.
|
|
|
|
Post by lonewolf75 on Mar 8, 2012 13:32:26 GMT 10
If It is all about growing the sport to everyone. Why not pair up a mens game with a ladies game to show case both.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2012 13:39:52 GMT 10
Nathan, if I related the outlay to my own financial means, the project would not get to first base. ;D
When I suggested the initiative would require "not a huge outlay overall" I meant precisely that. Overall. That is to say, I am confident the costs could be covered by council investment, sponsorship, maybe a BV component and other sources - without putting players to extra expense.
Of course it would be difficult for students, apprentices, unemployed and the others you mentioned to stump up extra cash for the weekend - including the large number of young players playing Division One with Doncaster and Waverley, in particular.
BV would need to be sure, before proceeding, that an extra financial burden was not placed on players and officials. If BV did or could provide a reassurance to that effect, then one of the principal objections would be dealt with.
|
|
andyt
Junior Member
Posts: 44
|
Post by andyt on Mar 8, 2012 13:47:08 GMT 10
With the utmost respect for all who have commented, I think you will find that if you asked the players in division 1 (who are the ones that will actually have to do this) their thoughts on the proposal you'd find 95% of players and staff would agree strongly with Nate. Most Div 1 firsts clubs have some component of kids that are in State systems, who will either still be away or will have just returned home, then you ask their parents to fork out another sum of coin on sending them away with the illustrious privilege to play for their club team, in front of nobody, 4 hours from home.
Whats more - then if you choose to disagree your only option is this
"On behalf of our club, I acknowledge our lack of willingness to promote baseball in regional areas, and therefore wish the Summer League Committee to not schedule the Regional Round."
With due respect BV, If a club like Geelong chooses no to this proposal, making guys like Nathan Holmes, Cam and Stuey Forbes, Matty Ryan and others, say they have a lack of willingness to support baseball in regional areas, is not just rude, it is downright insulting to these blokes that have put in so much on and off the field to make Geelong (a rural area) one of the best clubs in Australia. Last time i checked holmesy spent 5 years coaching the under 18 Vic Side which included a weekend in Ballarat to check out the country kids every year.
Im all for new ideas, and maybe one day in the near future a proposal like this will work and work well, but if you want clubs to throw ideas around and make them work, invite them to an open discussion and do it the right way, dont label us "not willing to support baseball in regional areas" if we disagree to your poorly thought out ideas.
|
|
|
|
Post by aueagle30 on Mar 8, 2012 13:52:34 GMT 10
Simple question Auseagle - lets work on the basis that there is a stand alone weekend for Division One firsts next season (for sake of the example say, the second Saturday in January). What would be your objection to the Geelong Baseball Club playing Essendon Baseball Club in a 4pm game at Ballarat, with another match (perhaps Sunshine should they get promoted and Werribee) fixtured to commence at 1pm to make part of a double-header for the people of Ballarat and it's surrounding towns? Is that how it works... you answer my two questions with one of your own? Okay, I'll show you how the answering part works... You may have missed my post earlier where I stated I have and will continue to consider playing games in regional centres... I've already had cursory discussions regarding playing pre-season games next year in Mt. Gambia. I would have no objection to playing games in Ballarat, or other regional areas, so long as our club was certain we could raise adequate funding to ensure the excercise was cost effective for our players (cost effective would be determined by the players themselves)... this same process was followed in determining our commitment to Grand Forks last year. What I would object to is any amatuer club or player being forced to fund a program they believed was not cost effective, offered little actual value to the intended purpose, and alientated other members of our baseball community. What I also object to is our governing body acting in a coercive manner to force me to agree with their idea, something you seem happy to ignore? Now, since I had the courage to answer your question, will you show me the same respect and answer my original questions... Stu, when are the Melbourne Aces scheduled to play in regional areas (not Geelong) next year?
And why does the good of the game always come at an additional cost to the average joe? Read more: baseballradio.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=bvcompetitions&thread=2980&page=1#ixzz1oUcN87HMAnd since I answered first, I think that entitles me to a bonus question... I'm raising money to save puppies from the local pound... I'm asking people to send a cheque in my name to my home address for $50 which I'll use to run activities designed to save the puppies. Option A: You like my plan to save puppies and would like me to PM my full name and address for you to send your cheque to. Option B: You hate puppies and don't want to help in saving them. Please just record your preference with simply an A or B. |
|
