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Post by rhricho on Dec 31, 2012 7:44:18 GMT 10
Contracts or documents! Pushed post to quick!
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Post by oldmanriver on Dec 31, 2012 8:26:21 GMT 10
Just out of curiosity, how many have been signed out of the Academy? It really only came to my attention when it hit the news waves and Lewis was the hot topic. Is he the first Victorian to be signed out of the Academy? Has the Academy increased the Australian signings in comparison to the "old Method" when kids were signed before, during or after Interstate tournaments? Just curious.
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player
Junior Member
Posts: 87
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Post by player on Dec 31, 2012 8:43:58 GMT 10
I don't follow this forum all that closely richo, so thanks for the heads-up and excuse me for my ignorance.
If you are saying (as you seem to be) that Lewis Thorpe is being made a scapegoat and that there are other signed players who have not met their contractual obligations, then that is the real issue and the real scandal.
Why has nothing been said or done about this before? Why has it just been tacitly accepted by those who claim to be in the know (like yourself, apparently)?
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Post by rhricho on Dec 31, 2012 8:50:31 GMT 10
If it was so clear cut, why the discussion? Have a lie down, never said was clearly in the lnow
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Post by regg44 on Dec 31, 2012 9:56:48 GMT 10
1 percent to the home club? Never heard of that before, maybe a few club's wondering if the cheques still in the mail.
If a player signs away from the academy, eg during or after Nationals, how does the ABF enforce the payment. Nothing, to my knowledge anyway, in the paperwork players and parents sign when a kid goes to National Tournament that says anything about a 5 percent levy if a player signs.
Authentic, just to clarify, Brendan never signed, had several offers but chose college route instead.
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Post by bobby on Dec 31, 2012 11:00:57 GMT 10
Does the 5% count on the full signing bonus or the after tax bonus? E.g is the 5% calculated on the full amount or is the 5% calculated on what's left after the taxman takes his cut? The two amount could be vastly different on a $500k signing bonus?
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Post by oldmanriver on Dec 31, 2012 11:29:45 GMT 10
I would be tipping the figure would be before tax so that the money grabbing ABF get their full wack. After tax would reduce the figure by quite a bit. That way young Lewis could write of that amount as a donation to charity. But I don't think it works that way, especially with the fun loving ATO.
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Post by rhricho on Dec 31, 2012 14:43:43 GMT 10
I don't follow this forum all that closely richo, so thanks for the heads-up and excuse me for my ignorance. If you are saying (as you seem to be) that Lewis Thorpe is being made a scapegoat and that there are other signed players who have not met their contractual obligations, then that is the real issue and the real scandal. Why has nothing been said or done about this before? Why has it just been tacitly accepted by those who claim to be in the know (like yourself, apparently)? That's also pretty clear you don't follow it all that closely, as the section I quoted was relevant to openeye's comment about the ABF supporters! Most have been trying to say clearly the process is not right! Most signing this paper would've have a scout and how much pressure are they put under to sign it??? Secondly this quoted post and your post before it (the one you got all wound up about even tho not about you!) kinda agrees to exactly what most if us are saying! Why haven't others been picked up, bad management by the ABF? they Didn't sign anything??? The discussion has moved towards - how can it be fixed so it doesn't happen again! Lewis doesn't deserve the ban, but signing something makes things tough. Tis a massive can of worms and something that needs fixing to avoid any other bans for players.
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Post by MF on Dec 31, 2012 18:30:42 GMT 10
Most have been saying also they don't agree with the 5% and it should be a flat fee, but nearly everyone agree - if you sign a contract, then live by it! Well said!
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Post by oldracer on Dec 31, 2012 19:10:52 GMT 10
"then that is the real issue and the real scandal." Player, the real issue is signed contract reneged. I have asked before with no answer player, were or was contracts signed stating the 5% fee back to the ABF? again we can only assume they have been. LT went to the academy in both '11 and '12 so that would be "2" contracts signed I would imagine and his performance at those showcases, put on by the ABF in conjunction with MLB by the way, would surely have gone a long way to proving his worth. Without the ABF, who would MLB get into bed with in Australia over the last decade to stage the academy and then subsequently invest large sums into our national competition? not sure there is an alternative to our national body that is recognised internationally, so where to for all the ABF bashers?? sand lot at the local high school !!!
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Post by Diesel on Jan 7, 2013 10:28:19 GMT 10
With the U18's starting next Saturday, will Lewis be allowed to play ...........
Anyone heard from the ABF..........
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Post by aueagle30 on Jan 7, 2013 12:43:12 GMT 10
mattnichol touched on this issue already, but here is a little more information... The argument that Lewis and his family signed a contract, therefore no further discussion is required and they should honor the contract simplifies what is a very complex issue... and for mine, one best determined by the proper regulatory authorities. Yes, they signed a contract. However, I think it could be reasonably argued the term requiring Lewis to forfeit 5% of his signing bonus is unfair according to Australian Consumer Law. For greater detail of the Australian Consumer Law, the guidline provided at the link is helpful... www.consumerlaw.gov.au/content/the_acl/downloads/unfair_contract_terms_guide.pdfFurther information is available at the ACCC website... www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/930021The law acts to protect consumers from unfair contractual obligations in situations where they're required to sign standard-form contracts (particularly in which they're offered no opportunity to negotiate), and where there is a fundamental imbalance in the bargaining power of the parties (considering the ABF monopoly on elite baseball competition in Australia, I'd say a major imbalance exists). Of particular note is the following: A term in a standard form consumer contract is unfair if:
- it would cause a significant imbalance in the parties’ rights and obligations arising under the contract; and
- the term is not reasonably necessary to protect the legitimate interests of the party who would be advantaged by the term; and
- it would cause detriment (whether financial or otherwise) to a party if it were to be applied or relied on.
According to the pdf guide I've provided, while terms related to up-front pricing cannot be considered unfair, up-front pricing excludes "fees and charges levied as a consequence of something happening or not happening at some point over the period of the contract. These are not payments necessary for the provision of the supply, sale or grant under the contract, but are additional to the up-front price." Considering the following facts... - The ABF has a monopoly over all elite programming in Australia. This is strong bargaining position over parents hoping for opportunities in baseball.
- The contract signed provides for an upfront price, $1,500/player. The cost of a player attending is higher, but the ABF uses its government funding (and MLB funding) to subsidise the costs. The 5% levy is an additional price that is only incurred as a result of an event occuring during the course of the contract.
- The ABF's financial statements show it's running at an average surplus of $240k between 2008-2011 (no financials available yet for 2012). This average surplus was significantly tempered by the almost $1.5million loss on a failed investment scheme in 2010, resulting in a $208k loss. This highlights the ABF is not soley reliant on these levies for its survival.
... I would like to see the Thorpe's stand their ground and test the fairness of this contract. Until someone does, the ABF will stand by the contract. This has impacted a number of young men already and if left unchallenged will impact others in the future. If the ACCC deems the contract fair, okay... if unfair, then we should be fighting to protect our young players, not exploit them. As further sidenotes... - Since 2009, the ABF has not provided a detailed financial account of the MLBAAP or the amount of revenue generated by players signing contracts. In 2008 and 2009, the MLBAAP generated a surplus of $20k and the ABF raised $66k in revenue from signed players.
Between 2010 and 2011, the ABF lost almost $425k on the MLBAAP... no detail is recorded in the financial reports to explain why.
Interestingly, the 2010 financial reports wrote down the revenue of the 2009 MLBAAP by $200k (the same amount provided by the ABF in 2009), without writing down any of the expenses. This changed the $20k surplus in 2009 to a $180k loss. Again, no detail was provided as to why.
Without details of how much players signings contributed to the ABF bottom line, it's difficult to tell if the ongoing surpluses are a result of players paying the levy, but it does seem unlikey by viewing the "Other Income" amounts.
- I know of at least one signed player who didn't pay any levy to the ABF, although his attendance at the MLBAAP was prevented by injury (did sign the contract however as part of his involvement with the Vic Academy program). I've been informed other players have also avoided paying the levy, players that have attended the MLBAAP, but this is only heresay, I've not spoken directly to these players.
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Post by Diesel on Jan 9, 2013 16:08:16 GMT 10
Just found out Lewis is now available to play in the U18 nationals, not sure of the ins & outs.
But all the best Vic Blues........
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Post by bobby on Jan 14, 2013 17:57:19 GMT 10
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