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Post by stuartcapel on May 21, 2012 18:25:23 GMT 10
Heard a rumour on the weekend that the Aces have officially played their final game at the Showgrounds, their home ground for two years and 49 matches.
Will be very interesting to see what those in charge come up with as far as itinerary for home matches if indeed it is fact.
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Post by phantom74 on May 21, 2012 21:29:54 GMT 10
Would be nice if we heard something from those in charge to let us not "in the loop" have some idea what is happening, about the Aces. When are the details of next years membership prices coming out???
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Post by huberfan on May 21, 2012 21:38:37 GMT 10
It's frustrating, we have heard nothing so far I posted a message today on the Melbourne Aces facebook page tonight had a look to see its been deleted, what the? think they would have learnt from last year to do better this year compared to last year, as this year will be make or break I have a feeling in my gut that it could be the last this season......hope I am wrong but we need to be promoting the game everywhere, other teams have their newsletters out we have nothing, to not even have memberships out yet its just pathetic making me think twice if its even worth having a membership this year..........
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Post by huberfan on May 21, 2012 22:15:29 GMT 10
sorry my mistake my message wasn't deleted but still we should be told something by now.....
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2012 23:00:33 GMT 10
If what Stuart has heard is accurate, then it seems the Showgrounds project has failed – just two seasons into the new league.
I don’t believe that we should be seeking to apportion blame for that setback or to in any way trivialise what we always knew would be a difficult ask to nail down a venue – in a minor sporting code – that would be satisfactory to all.
My understanding is that many hours of work, negotiation and wheeling and dealing went into investigating alternatives before the Showgrounds was settled upon a couple of years ago. The Showgrounds offered a viable option at a time when other potential venues had been considered and been rejected – for their various reasons.
If the Showgrounds is not to be used in 2012/13 – as now seems the case – we are seemingly back where we were a couple of years ago, albeit somewhat wiser with the benefit of hindsight.
Despite its shortcomings, the Showgrounds location and ambience were very attractive to some. The venue was leased and modified in good faith. Yet it attracted pretty ordinary crowds. Ironically, the largest attendance (over 2000 people) was probably the opening, rained-out night in 2010/11.
Crowds during 2011/12 were generally disappointing, as they were across most of the league.
What we have learned – if we did not appreciate already - is that nothing can be taken for granted in seeking to establish a new Australian Baseball League. Community sporting dynamics are far different to what they were ten or twenty years ago and giving the new league even any chance of success is going to pose real challenges and require a heap of hard work, much of which has already been expended.
Committed Australian baseball people want this league to succeed. Of course. Now, more than ar any other time, is when we all need to get behind the venture and support the various stakeholders in their endeavours.
Above all else, we need to accept that it will be tough going. We are not going to magically conjure up a perfectly-located baseball stadium, we are not going to be assured of decent attendances at games and we are not going to resolve all of the other myriad of issues without doing plenty of hard yards.
Even then there is no guarantee that the league will succeed.
Australian baseball and its MLB supporters entered this project on a wing and a prayer just a few years ago. Already, in just its third season, the league is desperately trying to find homes for the Melbourne and Adelaide clubs, both of whom are pivotal to viability of the league.
There was early talk about another two or three clubs entering the league in its third or fourth season. That is clearly not going to happen any time soon, not while the existing clubs are struggling to gain a foothold.
If Melbourne Aces will not be playing at the Showgrounds, then where does the club go?
In a word, Altona.
As unpalatable as it may be for some, it is as simple as that. For the next several years at least, at which time the sport – and the ABL – may be in a position to negotiate for something more grandiose.
With a reasonably modest upgrade (a lot less than would be required to maintain the Showgrounds), Altona could become the most impressive dedicated facility in the national league.
Forgetting about its location for a moment (an obvious issue for baseball people in the south-east), a new synthetic infield, work on the outfield surfaces, player facilities, a lick of paint, some landscaping and a directed promotional campaign could potentially make the old mausoleum a decent home for the Aces – and for Baseball Victoria and its affiliates.
The infrastructure is there, along with the office space, parking, seating and the like.
An Altona revamp would take some time. For the 2012/13 ABL season, while the work is being done, the Aces could play home fixtures on the road – taking the game to Geelong, Ballarat and La Trobe University. Getting out there in the regions, with a view to building a supporter base from very modest existing levels.
The Showgrounds project appears not to have worked, for a range of reasons. Let’s move on. Should we be able to develop a broad and growing supporter base over the next few years, then the ABL might get to a point where it could negotiate for a second club – and second dedicated facility – in the east or south-east.
It seems to me, at the moment, that we need to make the best of what we have - especially in uncertain economic times, when governments are not likely to be handing over money to a minor sport. No more kidding ourselves. Professional sport is a tough gig. Things are not just going to happen because we want them to happen.
As an independent voice, this Forum has always encouraged vigorous debate and constructive criticism. However, we are too quick, often, to be critical of those entrusted to make decisions on behalf of Australian baseball when the issues - as in this case - can be complex.
Regardless of what we might have to say, decisions will be made by the people entrusted with that responsibility. At this crucial time in the new league’s history, we have an obligation to respect those decisions, whatever they might be.
The Forum – and its administrators – owe no allegiance to anyone. These comments were prompted largely by concerns expressed by others with an interest in what is happening at ABL level.
They are thrown out there for the purpose of generating discussion and stimulating debate that might be helpful to the sport in its efforts to develop a strong and viable national league.
As baseball people, we are all in this together.
I do agree, though, that the ABL and the Aces could extend the courtesy of more regular updates - especially on the fundamental matters of scheduling, venue (s) and membership.
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Post by Goblin on May 22, 2012 16:03:28 GMT 10
I would have to agree with my learned friend.
Whether it be the showgrounds or any other dual use ground, baseball will always be at the whim of others who control their usage.
Altona still remains the only stand alone facility. (along with Softball).
There is no way anyone can justify creating a stand alone facility that baseball controls.
(unless the Geelong Council people move to a melbourne suburb)
Whilst a tuff thing to say, Spend the money upgrading Altona.
I for one enjoyed the games at the showgrounds and would like them to stay but a reality check sees problems that won't go away.
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Post by theolderiget on May 22, 2012 16:36:15 GMT 10
Perhaps it is time to bite the bullet and select a suitable Club ground as the Aces home. If the money that's been spent at the Showgrounds over the past 2 years had been spent on one of our Club grounds we might now have a facility in a "preferred" location that would benefit all concerned. It is pretty disappointing that the 2 best baseball fields in the State are outside the Metro area.
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Post by pirates on May 22, 2012 17:00:19 GMT 10
What he said……agreed KC The show grounds was a great idea but nobody really knew what it would be like until the team took over and had to work with what appears a very strict set of conditions. If you did not know that baseball was being played there you would not know it was on there at all as they don’t allow any signage for one thing. The other issues I see are that the team had restrictions with accessing the ground, the rebuilding of the ground, the lighting and sound restrictions when the game went over time. All these issues could not be fully appreciated before hand and these are just the things that we could see from the outside of the group, I’m sure there were other issues that management had to work around. Now they can’t have the ground until late December. I understand that last season Phil Dale went down to the ground and was refused entry when he went to inspect the ground because it was not his aloted time.
I think this is a no brainer, work with a venue that is already there and could be made into the best venue in Australia, purpose built. As a group we just need to get behind it, where ever it is and show the powers that be it’s a sport that deserves attention. The Aces need a home that can be a full time base accessed anytime for training, coaching clinics and potential national tournaments, remember Altona has 2 fields and loads of parking. The pros out way the cons in the short term, I think.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2012 19:37:38 GMT 10
The in-principle idea of selecting a club ground for redevelopment has heaps of merit, though I am not quite sure how the decision-making - and the sheer practicalities - could be managed to appease the largest number of baseball people and to placate residents' concerns.
I'm sure that most metropolitan clubs could and would argue a case for their selection as the Aces home. Only a handful, though, could offer the space for parking, facilities and future expansion. There would need to be serious consideration of the impact on local residents.
Altona and La Trobe University are among very few facilities in the state where space and residential impact are not issues.
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Post by stuartcapel on May 22, 2012 22:37:14 GMT 10
We will soon see about the Showgrounds, Altona and any other venue soon enough. Aces tonight Facebooked that schedule and prices will be announced "in the next few days".
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2012 22:55:52 GMT 10
Good to see the Aces getting out there with some detail.
I'm happy to stand corrected, though I doubt that the schedule will provide locked-in venues for 2012/13.
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Post by moose on May 23, 2012 0:09:00 GMT 10
Must say that either Altona or a vamped up Latrobe would suit me. Probably latrobe as its a lot closer. Some one mentioned that the showgrounds wasn't available until late December. Is that correct? Wouldn't surprise me that the show management wanted more access to the area that we used. It Never really felt like they were attuned to what the Aces were trying to do. Well if the rumors are correct as KC and Goblin have said then lets get behind the Aces, where ever they go!
Neil W
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Post by stuartcapel on May 23, 2012 14:33:48 GMT 10
Trav Blackley just had a fine outing, allowing three hits (two of which were comebackers that came off his person) in 3.2 innings and did not give up an earned run.
ERA with the A's is still 0.00 and overall, including his SF numbers, is down to 4.09.
Dom Ramos has now opened the season 0-14 at Sugar Land, though the Skeeters keep on winning. Hopefully he turns it around real soon.
Great also to see Kevin David has now gunned down thirteen would be base stealers (37% overall - his best in the minors) and is now hitting .267.
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bb26
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Post by bb26 on May 24, 2012 6:40:31 GMT 10
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Post by braves6 on May 24, 2012 12:39:26 GMT 10
Oakland to pursue Lindsay?
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Post by Marshy on May 24, 2012 16:42:30 GMT 10
New name? Attachments:
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Post by farnt on May 24, 2012 17:37:50 GMT 10
Busy day Marshy?
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Post by stuartcapel on May 25, 2012 17:46:30 GMT 10
Have just seen a copy of what I am being told is the new ABL fixture.
If it indeed the fixture, the Aces will be the only team to visit Perth twice, and will inexplicably play Perth 11 times while playing Brisbane and Canberra just eight times.
At least sending the Aces west twice suggests the club is awash with money to afford the two trips. This should mean no rise in membership prices.
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Post by Goblin on May 25, 2012 19:25:18 GMT 10
Have just seen a copy of what I am being told is the new ABL fixture. If it indeed the fixture, the Aces will be the only team to visit Perth twice, and will inexplicably play Perth 11 times while playing Brisbane and Canberra just eight times. At least sending the Aces west twice suggests the club is awash with money to afford the two trips. This should mean no rise in membership prices. If that is indeed the case, it would be a travesty.
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bb26
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Post by bb26 on May 25, 2012 21:23:00 GMT 10
Are you able to expand stu a little.... Know you probably don't want say to much I guess. But is that sort of difference in games based around a change in format of the league e.g. Splitting into a north and south 'divisions' or something??? Melb, Adl, Perth. And the Syd, Bris, Canb.
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Post by stuartcapel on May 25, 2012 23:41:47 GMT 10
Potentially you could have North/South, but if we're playing Adelaide, who do Perth play at the same time? Same when we're in Perth. Who would Adelaide be playing? In an eight team comp I can understand it but in a 6 team competition it doesn't wash.
Further, surely Sydney would get an advantage by having the two teams that have yet to make the ABL playoffs in Brisbane and Canberra.
So 11 games v Perth and Adelaide and 8 against the other three. At a time where many within AFL circles are bemoaning an uneven draw, the ABL has absolutely gone out of its way to create one.
The season is a week longer, but only expands by one regular season game, there's a Friday double-header on a day which isn't a public holiday (which doesn't respect the season-ticket holders, nor the players that have to work) and we see the team for all of three whole games in the first four weeks.
On the positive, no Wednesday night games. At least that doofus of an idea has been canned.
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Post by moose on May 26, 2012 8:10:07 GMT 10
Stu could the extra games be as a result of the unavailability of the showgrounds in the early part of the year? Or could it be because we don't have a home ground yet? If correct then the principal of playing each team the same number of times home and away has gone! Feeling less rusty than I was at this stage! Neil W
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Post by moose on May 26, 2012 8:44:58 GMT 10
Just seen the draw. It looks official, but can it be correct? The break down is as follows:- We play Heat 11 games (#8 away and #3 Home.) Bite 11 games (#4 away and #7 Home.) Sox 8 games (#4 away and #4 Home.) Cav 8 games (#4 away and #4 home.) Bandits 8 games (#4 away and #4 Home.) Total of 46 games!
We don't play Sydney Blue Sox until round 8 and again in round 11. We don't play Bandits until round 9 and back up in round 10 for the return series. We play the Cav in round 4 and again in round 7 and don't see them again. We play twice in Perth. We host Bite twice at home. We have two 19 day breaks between home stands. We have to jam a hell of a lot of Baseball into December at home including a home double header on a Friday(Non Pub-holiday). We get our Bye week 1st up when it probably won't have any good effect on our team.
This is a dogs breakfast of a draw and hopefully will be changed. It will do nothing to attract support IMHO and scotches the rumors of a change of home venue. It gives the appearance of being written to get around problems with the availability of the showgrounds. My biggest problem with it is that it appears to be grossly unfair to both the Aces (twice at Perth) and Adelaide (Twice in Melbourne), gives Perth three extra home games and is unbalanced in that the cav is over and done by halfway through the season and we don't play Sydney until round 8! A real poor effort this!
Neil W
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2012 10:19:34 GMT 10
There has been uncertainty over both the Aces and Bite venues. That may have something to do with the imbalances in home and away games involving those two clubs (and the Heat/Aces fixtures).
While the Aces are technically "at home" to the Bite on seven occasions, I still wouldn't be surprised if some of those games are not played in Melbourne.
Only surmising here, but is it possible that the clubs were seeded on their 2011/12 finish? Perth was dominant all season. Although it was a close go for the other finals spots, the Aces came very close to the championship.
For attendance and various other reasons, the ABL would dearly love a competition where all six clubs were in the hunt until the very end.
With this in mind, it will be interesting to see how the ABL approaches rosters and imports for the new season.
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Post by easyout on May 26, 2012 17:27:55 GMT 10
The Aces certainly need to overhaul their general Communications strategy. Members should not be in the dark as to where the Aces will be playing when truly at "home" and the draw itself beggars belief. If they can't confirm because they're still in negotiations, then this should be communicated clearly via multiple forums.
On a separate issue, surely they can get someone to run their Facebook page who can actually use correct spelling and grammar, and perhaps proof read occasionally? Three of their four most recent status updates are missing entire words, and some have multiple spelling errors. It is an embarrassment. It also utilises baseball jargon, which if you're not a player/highly involved fan you're not going to understand what they're on about (eg. "Travis Blackley has been claimed off waivers by the Oakland Athletics" - my mum has no idea what that means, it could have been articulated differently so new comers to the sport can understand)
If it is a "volunteer" run page, then that should be clearly communicated on the page so Aces can ex-communicate themselves from the substandard content.
I know I'm being harsh, and perhaps it's because it's what I do for a living and I have a high expectation as a result, but for a professional sporting club it is just a farce. (and apologies if I have made any errors in spelling or grammar, that would be quite a bit of egg on my face given I've just ranted about the issue).
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Post by moose on May 28, 2012 8:20:24 GMT 10
Just read the Aces news letter. No mention of our venue and interestingly talks about the new "balanced" schedule for the coming season!
Neil W
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Post by thequietthinker on May 28, 2012 10:04:26 GMT 10
For all those interested. Trav will get the start tomorrow (Monday US time) against Minnesota. Also happens to be the MLB.TV free game of the day.
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Post by stuartcapel on May 28, 2012 14:02:18 GMT 10
While we are bemoaning what has been somewhat strangely presented to us as a 'balanced' schedule, we should give some kudos to the Aces for actually giving us a sneak peak at the draw for season 2012-13. Noticeably, it has been taken down from the Aces website (unclear as to whether an in-house decision based on the errors in the schedule, or an ABL decision as no other club had placed their respective fixture on their own webpage and no timings/venues had been inserted), however it has given us a bit of an insight into what the ABL is thinking for the coming season. We all await venue and ticket price information this week. gallery.mailchimp.com/2f8eaa429465170b8a5c2918a/files/2012_13_Schedule_Melbourne_ALL_.pdf
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Post by Goblin on May 28, 2012 15:56:36 GMT 10
Just read the Aces news letter. No mention of our venue and interestingly talks about the new "balanced" schedule for the coming season! Neil W Hiya Moose, You must be on the special list if you received a newsletter. Nothing received at this end.
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Post by lonewolf75 on May 28, 2012 16:44:04 GMT 10
Hey Goblin, I must be on the same list as Moose, I got an email on the 25/05 "A Word from Windsor" with the 12/13 schedule on it.
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