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Post by Diesel on Jun 5, 2012 11:55:54 GMT 10
I did post something on Aces Facebook page about a rumour and they removed my post.
I have lost interest in trying to support this ABL format, cause they don't know how do communicate with the fans.
BAD CALL
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Post by stuartcapel on Jun 5, 2012 12:38:04 GMT 10
On the Aces Facebook page, depending on the version of the browser you are using or whether you are using an App on your iPhone, there does appear to be messages that seem deleted, but you have a view using another method and it pops-up again. Not sure why, but I've heard a couple of people say the Aces deleted something only for it to actually still be there.
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Post by oldmanriver on Jun 5, 2012 14:24:36 GMT 10
It might seem silly, but wouldn't the Aces be better trying to maximise the crowd pulling effect by taking their ball club to where the largest baseball population is based. The South East which has always been the largest baseball population. Altona would need a lot more than a lick of paint. Dandenong would still be the best option as there isroom to grow and expand the facilities and seems to have a council that would be willing to help out in a big way.
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Post by stuartcapel on Jun 5, 2012 15:00:52 GMT 10
Altona may need more than a lick of paint, however I am sure that if they get baseball people in to get it right then it will come out the other side much better than what it is currently. The fact is that Altona is actually there. At present there is nothing in Dandenong at present that can house a National League club, nor is there likely to be by November. Same with Aces Sporting Club - the idea of turning that into a baseball venue seems to be long gone as well (pity too as the plans looked good).
Putting it in Dandenong does largely ailenate the other side of town however and this is a Melbourne club, not a South-East Melbourne club. I'd also suggest getting to Altona isn't as hard as it was when the last league was going around - roads etc have improved a bit since then.
I'll meet you havlf way though OMR by saying we do need some sort of legacy out of the new ABL should it fall over in a few seasons time. While the Showgrounds was perhaps the best viewing stadium for baseball I have seen, we'd have little to show for investment after two years now than a few memories, clippings and youtube clips. There does need to be a designated facility upgrade or construction to ensure that baseball in this state does get something out of the national league.
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Post by farnt on Jun 5, 2012 15:51:16 GMT 10
Not sure if this has been mentioned before...but what about Ross Straw Field? Full size high quality ground to start with. May be hard to section it all off from a paying customer perspective but has potential. Not sure the neighbors will allow a fence though...
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Post by oldmanriver on Jun 5, 2012 15:51:31 GMT 10
The only other option would be to put the ground in the greatest sporting precint in the world and that is near the MCG,AAMI Park etc. But that would take money. The other option is to find an area that is well serviced by public transport. Either way it is going to come down to maximising the population logistics to guarentee a better than average crowd each game.
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Post by stuartcapel on Jun 5, 2012 16:03:29 GMT 10
Strangely enough, that's apparently where they were looking to put the new venue first up! www.austadiums.com/news/news.php?id=321Would have perhaps been OK until they worked out Brad Harman could comfortably put a fastball onto the far side of Punt Road.
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Post by oldmanriver on Jun 5, 2012 16:47:34 GMT 10
Still, wherever they decide to plonk the ground, it has to be accessable by public transport. After all, it is about having a good time and leaving the car at home, especially if they want to start games at 7.00pm or there abouts.
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Post by bobby on Jun 5, 2012 16:52:20 GMT 10
Punt road is off the radar as Richmond have just kicked the cricket club off the ground so they can train on it year round and extend the ground so it is the same size as Etihad.
Altona is good in theory but what about the two different surfaces, will players be allowed to wear metal cleats or do they need to wear turfs? That's a big ask if you want to be a pro league?
I think the main point is how to get bums on seats, I no longer play but I really don't want to go and see a game were I can only get junk food from one place, I watch players that I used to play against and I cant take my kids on a sunny day because there is no shade for them?
Also with players having to hold down jobs it isnt viable for them to play every game as we have seen with the likes of Brad Harman!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2012 17:10:49 GMT 10
The above-mentioned suggestions - and several others - were all considered prior to the first season of the ABL (I believe that a couple of dozen possibilities were explored). Each was rejected, for its own particular reasons.
Straw Field is perfectly placed, but cannot be fenced, it is a multi-function precinct and would require a large injection of capital even if the council would hand it over for baseball development.
As would Dandenong require a massive injection of funds. Punt Road would have created similar problems to some of those those experienced at the Showgrounds and could never become a permanent home for baseball.
Albert Park could be another perfectly-positioned option. But it, like others, is pie in the sky in the absence of a truckload of money coming from a benefactor or from government.
From the state government's perspective, baseball already has Altona. In these times, especially, it is not about to hand over 10 or 15 million to develop any option (such as Dandenong). Especially in view of the fact that attendances at the centrally-located Showgrounds simply cannot justify any such outlay.
Attendances are fundamental to continued MLB involvement in the league. But so is money. Therein lies one of the problems. The Showgrounds attracted nowhere near the crowds that were anticipated and the overheads were substantial.
Going to Altona - as I believe we should expect - will draw the usual complaints (especially from the south-east). The fact is, though, that a crowd of 500 at Altona would be financially far more viable for the ABL than 1000 or 1500 at the Showgrounds - given the overheads and outlays that were required each year.
Apart from some investment in improving Altona, running costs at the stadium would remain minimal. But we may not draw decent crowds, in which case it would be difficult to argue for a new, dedicated facility some time down the track.
Assuming that the Aces go to Altona, the best possible scenario for the organisation - and the league - would be to steadily build a supporter base over the next few years to justify government expenditure on a new facility. We may need to patient, and we may need to accept that we are not going to get what we want for quite some time, if at all.
And who knows? Altona was given a bad rap by plenty of people in the old league, but maybe we can do better with it this time around. Ironically, if a strong supporter base can be built and Altona attracts decent attendances, then maybe the league would opt to stay there!
As Stuart says, Altona is there. It is a dedicated baseball facility, whether we like it or not. Another facility is just not going to magically appear. Baseball is a minor sport in this country - no longer even in the Olympics - and does not have the bargaining capacity of netball, say.
That may change over time, of course. More of our players going to the majors, a significant increase in participation numbers, a gold medal at the Women's World Cup, an attention-grabbing performance at the World Baseball Classic, even an Aces ABL pennant. Any or all of those would be helpful in increasing our sporting presence and strengthening our case for greater resourcing.
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Post by brad7596 on Jun 5, 2012 21:03:20 GMT 10
I think they couldve worked it out by now.its meant to be a professional league. Just tell the supporters where your playing and release membership pricing so we can get on with it.
Im losing interest rapidly with this silent treatment .
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2012 21:31:40 GMT 10
brad, your frustration is shared by a whole lot of other people who want to support the Melbourne club.
I don't know that a final decision on a venue has yet been reached. But yes, it would be handy - and it would show a bit of respect - if the baseball public was informed of where we are at.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2012 22:53:23 GMT 10
I am reasonably OK with revisting of Altona to a point BUT I will go too less games out there than the Showgrounds AND I recall the beginning of the end of the ABL Mk1 with those rotten nights out there with the wind blowing in and somewhat boring low scoring games (as opposed to the fireworks at the Showgrounds most nights).
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Post by moose on Jun 6, 2012 7:44:02 GMT 10
I also remember the cold windy nights at Altona in ABL MK I.
ABL MKII is a different kettle of fish than its predecessor. For starters we don't have the mid-week games that they had then and we play Friday through Sunday. Altona is more spectator friendly in that it has shade for some of the ground, behind home IIRC.
Altona and its surrounds has also changed.... a lot! Lots of buildings now sit around the ground. Also the local suburbs have grown into the fastest growth suburbs in Melbourne and lack much in the way of close entertainment. Also exposure of the ground to the passing traffic on the freeway an advantage if advertising was done properly (Signage etc). Also with the Geelong ring road many fans could travel up for games, something unlikely at the showgrounds.
Is it worth re-visiting? Obviously yes. After all what have we got to loose? Going nowhere at Ascot Vale, especially with the showground management.
PS. Probably worth looking at a 8pm start for Friday games if we relocate to Altona, mainly due to traffic on the WRR!
Neil W
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Post by oldmanriver on Jun 6, 2012 10:03:50 GMT 10
If it is to be Altona, more seating would be great down the base lines and better if there were more refreshment stands. It is still going to take money. Good Luck
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Post by stuartcapel on Jun 6, 2012 11:52:45 GMT 10
My understanding is that Altona will undergo some works before the new ABL season, though the extent of the works is something that I still think is being proposed, and given that perhaps the amount of seating and the location of the seats is still unclear, you can perhaps understand why the Aces are somewhat reluctant to release ticket information at present. Should they release prices and seating arrangements and then have to change them, they would get more backlash from people than not announcing the prices.
That said however, why don't the Aces communicate this? On the day before the BV/Aces Awards night at the MCG, the Aces GM tweeted "Getting ready to launch our membership and ticket pricing for the 2012-2013 season at the Victorian Awards night Friday at the MCG!". The following night, I messaged a couple of people in attendance in regards the ticket pricings and they all mentioned nothing had been announced. As time went on, it led me, and others I spoke to, to wonder what happened between the Thursday and the Friday night.
Then on the 25th of May, the Melbourne Aces newsletter noted "We will be releasing our member and ticket pricing next week and will begin contacting all of you to get your seats reserved for the 2012-2013 season."
It is now the 6th of June and we are still none the wiser as to what the prices are. The word received by one member on their Facebook page is that: "...we are working through a few items before we go to market".
I'd like to think that most of us on this forum are a reasonable lot, and I think had on the 25th of May it been announced that "...we are working through a few items before we go to market" instead of "We will be releasing our member and ticket pricing next week and will begin contacting all of you to get your seats reserved for the 2012-2013 season." then it would have been more widely accepted.
I'm sure the Aces would love to announce prices, after all, the influx of capital can only help any business, it's just the communication that needs to be tweeked. To those bemoaning the situation, keep the faith and lets hope sooner, rather than later, we hear something from head office.
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Post by fuzzy on Jun 6, 2012 12:02:05 GMT 10
A bit off thread but I've heard that the 2014 MLB season opener will be in Sydney at the SCG.
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Post by oldmanriver on Jun 6, 2012 12:59:08 GMT 10
It sounds like the tweaking needs to be done within the Management and try and get their stories on the same page. Very hard to sell something that is not there yet.
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Post by mc15 on Jun 6, 2012 14:29:43 GMT 10
So with our family business, Tandarra Estate Wine & Olive Oil being contributors to the Melbourne Aces, I am a little concerned about what I’m reading on a few fronts. The first concern is the lack of communication from the Aces to their fans.
Communication to all stake holders is key to developing long term successful relationships, and personally Tandarra’s association is being fractured by the lack of information to us as a contributor on the status of the facility/facilities that the Aces are playing at next year. Which leads me to my second concern which is Altona.
As I sit hear writing this, I am looking out of my office window over the brilliant facility that is the Lakeside Oval. As we all know, we let the opportunity go in the ’80 to be located at Lakeside in favour of Altona. With the clarity of hindsight, I think we would all agree this was a poor decision. However, we cannot do anything about that.
What we can do however, is not make the same mistake twice. Where we are heading reminds me of this George W Bush YouTube clip...
Why Altona? It’s already there... Yes. It’s cheaper to run... Yes. And that’s about where I get stuck trying to justify it’s use. I can fill a page with the things that need to occur there to get it up to scratch which will offset any savings made from going there in the first place.
Above all else however, you can kiss goodbye any opportunity for government support for any kind of new stadium in the future if you go there. Victorian Baseball has abandoned the use of the facility because of it’s sub standard nature which gives BV and the board a position of strength to lobby for a new facility. By returning there, you are accepting the stadium as an adequate facility, and as such you’ve lost your position of strength.
At the risk of crapping on forever, in my opinion this is what the Aces need to focus on:
The integration of their contacts (the dysfunctional nature in which the ABL/Aces/BV operate together is the number 1 limiting factor), distribution (media/internet/facilities) and the goods & services (food & beverage/ technologies/ entertainment)
They need to understand their brand equity with you the fans is built round customer service, consistency & quality and giving you all a feeling of ownership
They need to understand that their true assets are the players and coaches who have a vested interest in the success of the league
They need to understand what is essential to the organisation (quality fan friendly stadium) and eliminate the non-essential (you would be shocked to hear how much firework displays cost for example)
They need to stop throwing good money after bad money. The same mistakes were made two years in a row. Don’t repeat the same mistakes twice!
Look after and support your sponsors. As a whole they are baseball people and they want to see this succeed. Burn your bridges with them and you have no chance!
Understand your fan base and WHAT THEY WANT! It’s so easy to do now with Facebook’s analytics etc
Understand the media. They are commercial. You want in, there are limiting factors, but you can get round these! Media are attracted to controversy, characters, and success in that order. Print media drives all forms of media. Outstanding radio & TV ratings hold peaks between 8-10% of market share. Herald Sun holds a 60% market share DAILY
Gez I have a lot more and I can go on all day, but you guys will be sick of reading all this. Could do part 2 another day...
Crooksy
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Post by stuartcapel on Jun 6, 2012 14:43:17 GMT 10
A bit off thread but I've heard that the 2014 MLB season opener will be in Sydney at the SCG. Minimum recommendations for a MLB field is 320 down the lines and 400 to centre. Can that fit at the SCG in a way that would provide quality/adequate viewing for spectators and safety for players?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2012 14:51:31 GMT 10
Someone in there needs to offer you a job MC15, I dont agree with everything youve said but what youve said is very well put and you raise many valid and logical points that ideally would form the basis of ongoing discussions/debate as to the best way forward.
And if we stuff this up now I cant see it ever happening AGAIN so can we just get this right this time please, for everyones sake.
I just hope someone in there is listening !
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2012 15:04:54 GMT 10
mc15, you're not going to get too many arguments about what you've said on a range of related ABL/Aces issues.
Nevertheless, the fact is that the Aces will need somewhere to play in 2012/13 and beyond.
No-one pretends that Altona is the ideal solution - far from it. But if it is not the Showgrounds and it is not going to be Altona, where do you suggest the club can realistically go?
One option would be to play all home games on the road for this season (IE Geelong, Ballarat, La Trobe) as a form of protest against the lack of a quality facility for a national league team, though I somehow doubt that the ABL would be keen to cough up for the considerable cost that would incur.
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Post by mc15 on Jun 6, 2012 15:33:28 GMT 10
In short KC, I don't have an acceptable answer for you right now. I certinally saw a way in which the showground could have been made possible. I sent an email to the Aces to run through this concept with them. they chose not to respond. The mentality cannot be how to loose less money (which is the attitude you are demonstrating by going to Altona) but how to generate more money for sustainability long term. I think there is a block of land owned by the Port of Melbourne at the end of Williamstown Road that has sporting stadium written all over it. "Port of Melbourne Stadium" "Mursk Shipping Stadium" "Patricks Stadium" See where I'm going...
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Post by stuartcapel on Jun 6, 2012 16:12:07 GMT 10
I drove past Moorabbin (the former home of St Kilda FC,not the Panthers) a couple of weekends ago. Has certainly changed since I was a lad as the bulldozers have been out in force.
But, the lights were still up, the venue still fenced and the grandstands used by the then Mebourne Reds were still in use. I understand it is the MSJFL home facility now, which means (most likely) it wouldn't be in use over summer.
What was the ground like to play on back in the day MC,and is it a possible place to return to?
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Post by mc15 on Jun 6, 2012 16:20:18 GMT 10
Funny you should say that Stu. I dropped in and had a look myself last week. I think it's more than a viable option. The locals didn't like it and there were issues associated with that, however, the lights were great, the surface was great and the viewing and amenities were ok as well. Not sure where the City of Kingston would be on the facility... Or if it's still owned by St Kilda Football Club.
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Post by fuzzy on Jun 6, 2012 16:22:18 GMT 10
A bit off thread but I've heard that the 2014 MLB season opener will be in Sydney at the SCG. Minimum recommendations for a MLB field is 320 down the lines and 400 to centre. Can that fit at the SCG in a way that would provide quality/adequate viewing for spectators and safety for players? Dimensions would not be a problem but viewing etc at football/cricket grounds are not ideal.
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Post by bobby on Jun 6, 2012 16:22:36 GMT 10
Sorry to burst your bubbles about Moorabin boys but the lights dont work, when they resurfaced the ground a few years ago the tractor took all the cables with it for some reason, so yes the lights are there but there is no way to turn them on.
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Post by Marshy on Jun 6, 2012 16:27:15 GMT 10
Does anyone know why BV and the Aces (not connecting them, just saying they both behave the same) are always so tight lipped? Is it perceived damage control?
I have to manage business change as part of my job and I can tell you, if you want to fail miserably, the fastest way is to alienate your stakeholders. The fans are the no.1 stakeholders in this league.
The MWBL Pres gets on here occasionally and with a few lines, puts to bed, a lot of chatter and speculation in relation to his league. I am yet to see this back fire.
Surely a "we don't know, but we are working on it" is better than the crickets we hear now.
Even put up a survey, saying, "hey, we need our fans' input". It doesn't matter if they never use any of the suggestions, at least fans would feel part of something.
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Post by mc15 on Jun 6, 2012 16:34:15 GMT 10
Marshy my understanding is that the Aces and the ABL operate seperate to BV. Personally, I think this is a poor way to establish a minority sport. Pretty sure we all want the same outcome.
It's like religion... Everyone believes in the same god but they've just chosen to fight about how to worship him for the last 2000 years
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Post by Marshy on Jun 6, 2012 16:47:23 GMT 10
Marshy my understanding is that the Aces and the ABL operate seperate to BV. Agree Crooksy. Just trying to say that they both have a poor history of communication, not that they are connected.
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