|
|
Post by ballsack on Feb 6, 2012 20:20:20 GMT 10
Could someone please clarify for me the policies about relegation and promotion.... top two go through, ladder leader at the end of the regular season?
Irrelevant of whether the club meets the criteria for a team fit for division 1.
|
|
|
|
Post by p26 on Feb 6, 2012 20:51:28 GMT 10
Minor premier and major premier, or both grand finalists if minor and major are same team. Must meet minimum junior and senior criteria. Should all top div 2 teams fail to meet minimum criteria then no relegation or promotion.
|
|
|
|
Post by wyatt33 on Feb 8, 2012 7:45:00 GMT 10
With the criteria, what happens if, and it's rumoured, that there are a couple of div one clubs that don't meet the criteria? What is the leagues stance with that possibility? If this is true,(as I stated it's speculation) how can this policy continue to be viable?
|
|
|
|
Post by Goblin on Feb 16, 2012 17:19:28 GMT 10
There will be several Div clubs keeping a close eye on the Div results as the end of season draws closer.
Reasoning : BV has already put out there that there are only 4 Div 2 clubs that meet the qualifications for promotion. These are Berwick, Newport, Sandringham and Sunshine.
The ladder leader at the end of season, if they are one of the above, auto get promotion for the following season.
If the ladder leader IS NOT one of the above, then there will be only one team that will still be up for demotion from Div1.
Currently the ladder is:
1. Mulgrave
2. Sunshine
3. Bonbeach
4. Sandringham
5. St Kilda
6. Newport
7. Berwick
If the 4 teams remain in the top 4 this will mean 2 can gain promotion and 2 not.
If placings remain the same and Mulgrave finish as ladder leader and then either Mulgrave or Bonbeach win grand final then there will be no team promoted and no team demoted.
It will be an interesting run home to seasons end.
|
|
|
|
Post by lonewolf75 on Feb 16, 2012 17:49:22 GMT 10
Goblin, did someone mention that there are apparently a couple of Div 1 clubs that no longer meet the criterea? What is to happen to them?
|
|
|
|
Post by Goblin on Feb 16, 2012 18:34:41 GMT 10
I did notice a post earlier mention that there a maybe some Div 1 clubs that don't meet the current requirements.
Is this a fact or merely a suspicion, I do not know as no one was named.
|
|
|
|
Post by wyatt33 on Feb 17, 2012 15:23:23 GMT 10
As was mentioned in an earlier thread, there is rumoured to be one or two clubs already ing div one that don't meet the leagues own criteria. Doing a count of results from the weekend I've narrowed it down. I won't mention the clubs but one is a long standing div one club located in the inner east, and the other is a recently promoted club from the outer west. Now I'm only going off the results in the paper, so there could be some missing results, and I haven't taken into account the tee ball numbers, and local centre teams that don't play Sunday's. Once again I wonder about the validity of the leagues qualification standards if there are clubs already in the highest grade that don't meet the expectations. It's a slap in the face to be honest. We(mulgrave) added two sunday teams this year, and will hopefully be fielding a tee ball team in another clubs Friday night centre next year. We have come along way, having only 2 sides about 15 years ago, and bigger all juniors. However, we did have a couple of folk who weren't prepared to shut up shop, and they went on to get together firstly, an extra senior side for 2nd div, them we found enough players to put in a 4ths side so we qualified for promotion back then! Then last season we fielded a masters team, then a second this season! Plus the three junior sides, I think the rebels have come along way, in an area where we had zero growth, in terms of juniors, hence our move to dandy last season. And were not on our own. To think st kilda have 8 senior men's teams, yet because they don't have any juniors can't go up, if good enough. It's crazy if you ask me, but what can you do. Unless the league realize that the criteria is way too hard for some clubs in some areas, or look at the effort and work these clubs are putting in to grow their clubs, then itay as well be two different leagues. I know I bang on about this, but promotion to a club like mulgrave, who've never been in first div, would mean an enormous amount to a lot of people involved over the years!
|
|
|
|
Post by Goblin on Feb 17, 2012 18:58:48 GMT 10
Eligibility for Retaining or Promotion into Division 1
Minimum Number of Teams Minimum four (4) Men’s teams
Minimum of six (6) Junior teams, of which one must be an U18 or U16 team.
Clubs are allowed a maximum of one (1) composite team to be counted as one (1) junior team for each club. A minimum of 25 registered teeball players may be counted as one team.
|
|
|
|
Post by wyatt33 on Feb 17, 2012 20:13:48 GMT 10
Eel then if it's six junior teams I'd suggest it might be more than two first div clubs that don't qualify. It's easy to print the policy, bur what about I'd two existing clubs aren't qualified? Answer that please....
|
|
|
|
Post by Goblin on Feb 17, 2012 20:52:56 GMT 10
Eel then if it's six junior teams I'd suggest it might be more than two first div clubs that don't qualify. It's easy to print the policy, bur what about I'd two existing clubs aren't qualified? Answer that please.... As you are the one telling the story, don't sugar coat your insinuations. You are saying the 2 clubs are  ?? |
|
|
|
Post by wyatt33 on Feb 17, 2012 21:28:34 GMT 10
I'm asking that if there are clubs that are in first div that aren't up to the criteria, then what is the leagues policy on that? Is it hard to understand that, maybe a few people at mulgrave, bonbeach and any other team fighting it out to play in a grand final, being told too bad....and you only have to look at the results in the hub to see that there are a couple of clubs that have only 2-3 junior teams playing on Sunday! One in the inner east, the other not too far from hoppers crossing!
|
|
|
|
Post by Coalmined on Feb 17, 2012 23:34:03 GMT 10
By my count wyatt the club not too far from Hoppers Crossing have 5 Junior teams + Tee Ballers.
2x Little league and 1xunder 14 in the area centre.
An under 16 and under 18 side in the Major league competition on Sundays.
Also the Tee Ball being run on Saturday mornings.
|
|
|
|
Post by The Puma on Feb 18, 2012 5:04:02 GMT 10
I was told Blackburn were short on juniors this year, not sure if that's the case or not.
|
|
|
|
Post by MF on Feb 18, 2012 15:52:11 GMT 10
there is rumoured to be one or two clubs already ing div one that don't meet the leagues own criteria. [...] I won't mention the clubs but one is a long standing div one club located in the inner east, and the other is a recently promoted club from the outer west. Wyatt, this is BS. You can't make inflammatory accusations based on factually wrong information and just excuse their total inaccuracy by saying "oh, I just looked in the papers for the Sunday results". Now, "Inner East" can only cover Malvern and Melbourne and -- at a stretch -- Preston and Fitzroy. Malvern is the only "long standing" team amongst them. The BV Junior ladders clearly show that all of the above clubs have at least 6+ sides plus tee-baller, except for Fitzroy which has 5 plus tee-ballers. And yes, they all have U16 or U18 teams. In Malvern's case, they have 7 junior sides across Fridays and Sundays PLUS tee-ballers. And as for your "recently promoted" team in the West, Coalmined has cleared them as well. Try checking your facts before you sling mud. |
|
|
|
Post by bigplums on Feb 18, 2012 19:35:31 GMT 10
It looks to me like Wyatt33 is sulking because those lazy blokes at Mulgrave aren't going to cut the mustard and make it to Divvy 1. I suggest you take your bat and ball and go home. Just suck it up Princess!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by stockley on Feb 18, 2012 20:15:31 GMT 10
Whats the problem Wyatt? I'd understand if you were even close to running enough juniors - such that you may be able to qualify by the start of next season, but you're not!
By your listing - 2 junior teams and 1 tee-ball team (not even 25 kids). Its a long way short of the 6 required...
|
|
|
|
Post by wyatt33 on Feb 18, 2012 20:53:11 GMT 10
Are you all scared of playing mulgrave?
|
|
|
|
Post by p26 on Feb 18, 2012 20:54:55 GMT 10
More like scared of leaving any valuables in our cars at your home ground.
|
|
|
|
Post by wyatt33 on Feb 18, 2012 21:29:08 GMT 10
Good one
|
|
|
|
Post by p26 on Feb 18, 2012 21:31:52 GMT 10
Back at ya
|
|
|
|
Post by The Puma on Feb 20, 2012 9:41:28 GMT 10
More like scared of leaving any valuables in our cars at your home ground. I think you mean Waverley. |
|
|
|
Post by wyatt33 on Feb 20, 2012 11:50:35 GMT 10
More like scared of leaving any valuables in our cars at your home ground. I think you mean Waverley.[/quote Impossible puma! Doesn't happen at first div clubs, just the scum in second div and lower....  |
|
|
|
Post by Marshy on Feb 20, 2012 12:50:47 GMT 10
@ Wyatt.
I get that you're passionate about your club and like to promote it, or where appropriate, defend it as much as you can. I feel the same way about mine.
Out of respect for other people's loyalties and their passion for their clubs, I would like to request that you leave the uneducated mud slinging out of your posts and stick to positive, healthy promotion of your team and the game in general.
I have always been taught that those who seek to belittle, are only insecure about themselves and seek self affirmation by way of denigrating others.
Off the back of the Aces success, our game is in a really good position to progress forward and reach a greater audience and higher participation level than ever before. It would be a real shame if we let our petty differences damage, what has taken many people, a lot of time and effort to create.
I look forward to your next post.
Your in baseball
Marshy
|
|
|
|
Post by p26 on Feb 20, 2012 13:06:48 GMT 10
More like scared of leaving any valuables in our cars at your home ground. I think you mean Waverley.[/quote Impossible puma! Doesn't happen at first div clubs, just the scum in second div and lower.... Wyatt, I spent about 15 years on and off at moorabbin in all three divisions. I have nothing against div 2 clubs. I was just taking the piss out of your obviously tongue in cheek comment. What's good for the goose and all that. |
|
|
|
Post by wako on Feb 20, 2012 13:11:06 GMT 10
More like scared of leaving any valuables in our cars at your home ground. I think you mean Waverley.[/quote Impossible puma! Doesn't happen at first div clubs, just the scum in second div and lower.... Thefts from cars at Napier Park are well documented. Now, how about backing up these insinuations you've made, which you could quite easily do with five minutes' research? If not, how about "Oh, sorry guys, I was full of sh!t" or words to that effect? |
|
|
|
Post by wyatt33 on Feb 20, 2012 13:34:13 GMT 10
I appreciate that people mightn't agree with my ideas on this forum. However, as you can read, I've been pilloried by a few people in regards to this particular topic, and I'd suggest it's from majority of div one folk. That's fine, I'll admit that I wasn't correct in regards to some clubs junior criteria, and I'll live with that. But, marshy, if you think that because of this I'll stop banging on about the leagues narrow minded attitude towards developing clubs, and that is exactly what most, or all 2nd div clubs are, and the holier than thou attitude displayed by members of the general div 1 baseball publis towards those clubs, Then your mistaken. I've been involved at the rebels for all but it's first season and a half, by my count more than 30 years. In that time I've seen it all, good sides, poor sides, even on two occasions not enough players to take the field for our ones! Now, with a side that has been built by guys how saw a club in need, and have seen an oppunity that they could play senior div 2 baseball, they have made something very positive happen at Mulgrave. Add to that the loyalty of a bloke like Nick Lane and some others who've also spent their entire baseball life representing the rebels, we feel a bit aggrieved by this short sighted approach by the league. And they have set a precedence in the past, with their change of policy, that one club made the most of(Melbourne), and changed the rules. What I'm saying is that, it will look ordinary, if say, mulgrave and bonbeach play in a grand final( that's a hypothetical, no disrespect to sandy or sunshine). Two teams that have basically the best two teams all year on 2nd div. Where is the incentive, other than being called the 2nd div champs is there. And say things continue that way for another year. Eventually what happens is kids look at their local clubs and say, they're not div one, or are going to be, so well go to (insert div one club) and after a while, you've got 12 or 14 clubs just making up numbers paying onto the bv coffers until theyre no longer able to put in competitive sides, because of the age of most blokes is beyond the average age of a senior baseballer. Given the opportunity to play div 1, I'd suggest that we might be able to attract a few more kids that might be tossing up between us or berwick or even chose us instead of wandering over to high st rd. It happens a lot, trust me. That's fine, but this is an opportunity for a club to create some history, and for a long suffering life member, a spot in div one is what I'd like to see. Sue me for caring! Thanks for listening....assuming your still out there...hey is this rain going to affect masters tonight?
|
|
|
|
Post by p26 on Feb 20, 2012 13:45:43 GMT 10
It's not like this is a new thing though Wyatt. qualification rules have been in place for at least the last twenty years. Cry poor about not having access to build more juniors all you like but teams as close to each other as waverley and Blackburn (literally five minutes between them, have been able to do it for years. Teams as close as sandy and chelt also have done the same for years. I understand that there's a bunch of blokes who've put in a lot of hard work and kudos to them, but if you really want to get to div 1 then it's simple. Put 6 junior teams on the field next season, finish on top and it's all yours.
If you don't have sufficient juniors and the league did change it's mind, then how long could you honestly expect to stay there on performance without juniors feeding your playing ranks. You can't do it through recruitment of seniors alone. It's not that easy. there's not that many players of div 1 calibre hanging round waiting to move.
As for Melbourne benefitting from the rule change, I think the two rule changes are very different. I was at moorabbin and then sandy when that rule changed. It was a rule change made with the intent of bettering the future of baseball. Not sure that allowing clubs promotion with fewer juniors is in the same vein. I would also suggest that the investment Melbourne made in it's juniors was what has put it in this position moreso than div 3 being combined with div 2. The climb back may have taken a little longer but no doubt would still have occured because of the amount of juniors it had to draw on.
Anyways, back to work.
|
|
|
|
Post by Marshy on Feb 20, 2012 13:56:01 GMT 10
I understand your argument, I truly do. I am privileged to play for a Div 1 club in summer, however winter is a different matter altogether.
I think your focus is wrong, and, in my opinion, until you change it, you will continue to struggle.
I hate (read that as jealousy/envy ) Waverley as much as the next bloke, but on the weekend, I saw why they are as successful as they are. I watched a senior Waverley player, with years experience, stand in front of a group of under 8 t-ballers and drill them - in a good way, teaching them the fundamentals of the game. He also had an abundance of helpers. They were well dressed, well coached and well drilled.
My suggestion to you would be to stop focusing merely on the fact that these Div 1 clubs just "poach, steal, attract" your players and start asking yourself why?
Having not seen any of your junior programs I can not pass judgement, but if you want to be a Waverley, Upwey, Geelong, Essendon, you need to ensure that your coaches know what they're doing and know how to engage kids and keep their interest.
Trust me, Teeballers, U12, U14 even, don't care which division their ones play in. They care about how much fun they have when they play.
Please take a moment to ask yourself, if one of the few juniors you have at your club, got on here and saw a very senior, no doubt respected member of his/her club, bagging out other clubs and moaning about how hard done by you are, what would their reaction be?
Is this the image Mulgrave Baseball Club wants to portray?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2012 14:37:15 GMT 10
What at first glance in this discussion might appear to be people airing some serious differences, it is far more than that.
It is in fact an affirmation of what most of us have in common - a love of the game and a shared desire for our clubs and our governing bodies to get better at what they do.
I do agree with Marshy that the time is opportune for baseball people to collectively take advantage of opportunities to help strengthen the game and nurture the solidarity of well-intentioned people in the game - whatever their club allegiance might be.
|
|
|
|
Post by rhricho on Feb 20, 2012 14:57:20 GMT 10
Marshy I think your out doing youself here and I applaud you for it.
It may land - it may not, Either way well done!
I think all clubs should (prob do) have the right to ask for a review of the current criteria for relegation or promotion, perhaps yearly?? - as I feel Wyatt you may be justified in some ways due to the fact that not much movement at the end of this season MAY even happen at all.
HOWEVER - slinging crap at Div 1 clubs and their success??? is an all time low even for you Wyatt. I should add there, that this could be an embarrassment to your club also - I have spoken to some of the quality ppl from Mulgrave (and their is a lot of them I get on with) and they cannot believe some of the posts. Via PM's or face to face with them coming to me to bring it up!!!
I've been very aggressive towards you and the Puma creating at times quite a slinging match of our own - honestly, definitely come across myself like quite a t w o t in doing so, but this is an excellent example of exactly why I have!
Amazing recent quotes - IMO
"i'm always up for a Waverly bash"
"I was told Blackburn were short on juniors this year, not sure if that's the case or not"
So far from my memory - you and the Puma have attempted to bash, Waverly, Blackburn, Cheltenham, BV, The Aus team, The Aces management, Sly Pig, Chardy, Matt G, barb, Nate and many more.
Not that any of the above mentioned need this mention or support - its just amazing the level of stupidity behind it! IMO you wouldnt wanna play div 1 to come up against these teams or players as small victories a(nd silent victories generally) is what they live off!
They are, were, will be continually - successful players and clubs as they are good at what they do and hats off to them!!!!
-I understand waverly have like 40 odd guys each tues and thurs nights on a hitting list.
-Malvern have each Thurs 20-30 guys for Pizza, with Grace served and an eventful story told with a little award.
-Nate had his team travel OS to play this year - awesome effort!!!
and so on and so - does your club have this??
If you haven't played or experienced the Div 1 lifestyle that some clubs offer your missing out and IMO have no right to comment on it.
But what would I know Puma - being so stupid myself?? notice you didn't reply to my PM either especially when someone asks you a man to man question!
Not that long ago, it was mentioned from one of your fellow Mulgrave guys on here - "I dont often agree with Wyatts posts and .............." Myself - I would've taken that as a little tap on the shoulder, perhaps a little - mate your embarrassing yourself and our club kinda thing!
Passion is a beautiful thing - but when you disrespect others in the attempt to validate your view or actions, you've lost all creditability!
slap! slap! slap! - then by the way I have something serious to say now!!
Ahh sorry champ!!
|
|
