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Post by stuartcapel on Feb 23, 2012 8:09:23 GMT 10
I have heard that a three game suspension was handed down.
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Post by The Puma on Feb 23, 2012 8:24:55 GMT 10
Ralphy must have gone to a different tribunal.
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Post by wyatt33 on Feb 23, 2012 8:44:42 GMT 10
The haves and the have nots puma!
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Post by wyatt33 on Feb 23, 2012 8:45:33 GMT 10
The league might want to be careful, because you certainly don't want to bight the hand that feeds you....
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Post by stuartcapel on Feb 23, 2012 9:24:37 GMT 10
Volunteering for the tribunal next season eh, Wyatt?
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Post by wyatt33 on Feb 23, 2012 9:54:54 GMT 10
No, just a few inconsistent results coming this year. It's not on my agenda to try and change anything from inside the league. It would be impossible to get in, first point, and they wouldn't listen even if i did get in. But thanks for the vote of confidence. And my initial reponse was certainly not a crack at harmo. Good player that the game needs.
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Post by The Puma on Feb 23, 2012 9:59:07 GMT 10
I dont think BV have any influnce over the tribunal damo.
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Post by stuartcapel on Feb 23, 2012 10:01:08 GMT 10
No, just a few inconsistent results coming this year. It's not on my agenda to try and change anything from inside the league. It would be impossible to get in, first point, and they wouldn't listen even if i did get in. But thanks for the vote of confidence. And my initial reponse was certainly not a crack at harmo. Good player that the game needs. What leads you to the conclusion that they are inconsistent? |
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Post by Chardy on Feb 23, 2012 10:55:52 GMT 10
From what i have heard Tjack, there was a rough but legal play at home plate that Brad took exception too. The ensuing discussions that held up play for 10 minutes or so came prior to ejections, that is rule applied...rule questioned...ruling was held. Right or wrong ? Sounds like ego. I was not there so I won't comment on the incident, but what I will say is if ever there was a player who deserved to have an ego within Victorian Baseball then it is Brad Harman (he played in the big league's. Never forget what an accomplishment that is). However he is one of the most humble players I have ever come come across. He is a no nonsense leader on the field who lets his game do the talking for him. Sounds like ego? Sounds like you have never watched him play! Seconded. Harmo is a good bloke who has no ego problems at all. I could see him sticking up for his teammate to the point where it sounds like he jumped on a grenade. Doesnt take a genius to see that the umpire got the call wrong and Harmo felt strongly enough about it to tell the umpire all about it. And no, I wasnt at the game. |
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Post by perfeckt on Feb 23, 2012 10:57:58 GMT 10
Dear johne and duckfart, I have the utmost respect for what Brad Harmon has done in baseball and yes, I have watched him play. My reference to ego however still stands. Look at the charges for a start. Sure, as a manager or player you'll get involved if you believe something happened to a team mate that shouldn't have happened but after venting get on with it and if you want to, take it through the official channels later. Don't however hold up a game swearing and carrying on for 10 minutes in front of family's and the kids that everyone's trying to teach respect for umpires, that goes for spectators as well by the way. If getting thrown from a game and refusing to leave the field hasn't anything to do with ego then what would you call it? Maybe the umpire didn't handle the situation as well as it could have been (it wouldn't be a first) maybe he did, maybe the catcher was taken out intentionally (it wouldn't be a first) maybe he wasn't, maybe it was brainfarts all round. "Ego is not a dirty word."
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Post by wyatt33 on Feb 23, 2012 11:14:03 GMT 10
I get the feeling that this won't be the last of this thread!
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Post by stockley on Feb 23, 2012 11:18:25 GMT 10
Where do the inconsistancies cone from?
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Post by wyatt33 on Feb 23, 2012 12:14:01 GMT 10
Doesn't matter does it, but I'm sure puma would like to elaborate, as I would too. However, the person involved doesn't really want to go on with it.
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Post by The Puma on Feb 23, 2012 12:30:15 GMT 10
Division 2 seconds player, 8 weeks. Note no aol either. Abusive language directed at an umpire Dissent Disobeying umpires direction Failing to leave the field Arguing a judgement call Division 1 firsts player, 3 weeks. Audible obscene language Abusive language directed at an umpire Arguing judgement call Failing to take no further part in the game Division 1 firsts player, 3 weeks. Audible obscene language Abusive language Abusive language directed at an umpire Dissent Unsportsmanlike conduct Disobeying umpires direction Failing to leave the field Remonstration Inconsistancies? nah Read more: baseballradio.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=bvcompetitions&action=display&thread=2957&page=2#ixzz1nAcc3lHn |
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Post by stuartcapel on Feb 23, 2012 12:59:58 GMT 10
Is that a list of the charges that the respective players were found guilty of, Puma?
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Post by The Puma on Feb 23, 2012 13:02:17 GMT 10
Acording to the weekly memo's it is.
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Post by stuartcapel on Feb 23, 2012 13:37:47 GMT 10
The last memo I have seen was dated the 16th. There may have been one since but as the last public one I will work off that.
I can see where one player received a 3 match penalty but the Harman case clearly states the hearing would be held on the 21st, which was Tuesday, days after the memo came out.
So my suggestion is that he did not receive a penalty for all of those charges, just some. Which ones and why I'd suggest are between those involved but there are a number of things that could have happened. Thing is we simply don't know, which means it is totally unfair to suggest inconsistencies given the facts between the cases are likely very different.
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Post by stockley on Feb 23, 2012 14:30:54 GMT 10
Having not been present at any of these events, I can't really comment on what was exactly said (especially because I don't know what case number 2 is...).
I did hear an account of what was said by the Div 2 player, and am certainly wasn't suprised by the length of punishment given to him. I would have an tough time believing that Harmo would display the complete unprofessionalism that I heard of the div 2 player.
Aside from conjecture, I'm completely with stuartcapel on this one. Until BV publishes more detailed results from Tribunal hearings - rather than a general guilty/not guilty and penalty - we won't know how the penalty was arrived at reliably. We don't know what charges get dropped, we don't know anything about the process - and we certainly don't have facts on the reported severity of the charges to compare incidents and claim inconsistancies... After all, I could get tossed this week for asking an umpire if he's watching the same d**n game, but it would still potentially show up as
Abusive language
Abusive language directed at an umpire
Dissent
It depends on the umpire, the day, and the frustration levels doesn't it. (and I've seen a kid get tossed for asking that question too...)
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Post by The Puma on Feb 23, 2012 14:39:57 GMT 10
This was from week 10, there are several not guiltys scattered through the memos. From that I gathered everything else was guilty but you guys might be right.
Audible obscene
language
Abusive language
directed at an umpire
Arguing balls & strikes
Unsportsmanlike
conduct
Tribunal hearing
Found Guilty of AOL & Arguing
balls & strikes, charges of
Abusive language directed at an
umpire and Unsportsmanlike
conduct were struck out.
Penalty: 2 games
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Post by wyatt33 on Feb 23, 2012 15:34:28 GMT 10
It's clear that most of the people on this forum love to stick together, and will do anything to stick up for the league for fear of retribution(god knows why)! If you blokes can't see that what penalty ralphy got, and the what harmo got is not inconsistent, then your heads ate stuck way to far up a certain cavity!
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ghost
Junior Member
Posts: 24
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Post by ghost on Feb 23, 2012 16:28:33 GMT 10
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Post by Goblin on Feb 23, 2012 16:36:10 GMT 10
In the paperwork BV sent out this week with all the finals information for juniors and seniors "Dear Presidents & Secretaries Please find attached the schedules for the 2011/2012 Junior Minor League and Seniors Semi Finals to be played on the 26th February 2012. These schedules will be available to view on the Summer League website shortly. All lower grade Senior competition Play-offs will be played in Page System finals. There is no time limit for Senior Play-off games. An error was picked up in the 2011/2012 Senior Play-offs Conditions regarding the game start times. As the Play-offs are single games these games will start at 1.00pm, not 2.00pm as stated in the Play-offs Conditions. The Minor League Junior competition Play-offs will play in Single Elimination Finals. All Play-offs eligibility requests must be received by the office no later than midday Thursday 23rd February 2012. If you are unsure of player eligibilities please contact me before the cut-off date." |
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Post by Chardy on Feb 24, 2012 20:17:11 GMT 10
It's clear that most of the people on this forum love to stick together, and will do anything to stick up for the league for fear of retribution(god knows why)! If you blokes can't see that what penalty ralphy got, and the what harmo got is not inconsistent, then your heads ate stuck way to far up a certain cavity! Wyatt - Does "Ralphy" has a past record? Perhaps a habit? Does Harman have a past record? I dont know the answers on either of these - just asking. This may or may not have something to do with the penalty handed down. |
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Post by Coalmined on Feb 25, 2012 6:58:08 GMT 10
I did hear an account of what was said by the Div 2 player, and am certainly wasn't suprised by the length of punishment given to him. I would have an tough time believing that Harmo would display the complete unprofessionalism that I heard of the div 2 player. Is this because Harman is a Major leaguer and knows better? Obvously he was unprofessional as he got 3 weeks.(just happens to be only 3 weeks left in the season coincidently) Not trying to have a shot at Harman, never met him. Maybe the difference is Harman went to the tribunal and answered yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir and did't try to fight the case. Therefore getting three weeks. Divvy 2 player tried to defend the charges. At one point actually had to ask a tribunal member to pay attention as they were not even giving the courtesy of listening. Didn't give the no sir, yes sir three bags full sir answers required to get a 3 week sentence. On side note I have heard from 2 separate sources that a tribunal member was telling them how the whole tribunal meeting went down. 1 person being told did not even know the tribunal member personally and was being told to him in the stand at an aces game where anyone within ear shot could hear. By the way What the divvy 2 player said to the umpire, I said the same to a basketball referee in a representative match and got a 4 week suspended sentence. Heard a divvy 1 coach yell the same thing at the opposition dugout 3 feet in front of an umpire and not even get tossed. When oppsosition asked about it. The umpire told them "The coach knows better than that." |
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ghost
Junior Member
Posts: 24
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Post by ghost on Feb 25, 2012 7:38:49 GMT 10
In the paperwork BV sent out this week with all the finals information for juniors and seniors "Dear Presidents & Secretaries Please find attached the schedules for the 2011/2012 Junior Minor League and Seniors Semi Finals to be played on the 26th February 2012. These schedules will be available to view on the Summer League website shortly. All lower grade Senior competition Play-offs will be played in Page System finals. There is no time limit for Senior Play-off games. An error was picked up in the 2011/2012 Senior Play-offs Conditions regarding the game start times. As the Play-offs are single games these games will start at 1.00pm, not 2.00pm as stated in the Play-offs Conditions. The Minor League Junior competition Play-offs will play in Single Elimination Finals. All Play-offs eligibility requests must be received by the office no later than midday Thursday 23rd February 2012. If you are unsure of player eligibilities please contact me before the cut-off date." Thanks Goblin! I presume the games are still 7 innings. |
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Post by barb05 on Feb 25, 2012 7:47:55 GMT 10
I reckon there comes a time for a manager to protect his players to the point of getting tossed. Arguably that is a manger's job and I don't believe that can be classes as dissent. Unsportsmanlike and abusive... Well that's a matter of what was said.
However, if a player decides to take it on himself to express the same sentiment, then harsher penalties need apply. That is actually in our rules.
No one should comment I'm what is said in the tribunal, but if you put yourself on a position to get tossed then you have to take your medicine.
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Post by perfeckt on Feb 25, 2012 8:42:50 GMT 10
We're, after all only human.
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Post by wyatt33 on Feb 25, 2012 13:07:06 GMT 10
Ralphy has never been up before in his career. 20 something years in the game!
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Post by The Puma on Feb 25, 2012 16:24:44 GMT 10
Ralphy has never been up before in his career. 20 something years in the game! It's over 30, at least 10 of those as a manager. Pretty good record really. (not like mine) |
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Post by The Puma on Feb 25, 2012 16:26:47 GMT 10
I reckon there comes a time for a manager to protect his players to the point of getting tossed. Arguably that is a manger's job and I don't believe that can be classes as dissent. Unsportsmanlike and abusive... Well that's a matter of what was said. However, if a player decides to take it on himself to express the same sentiment, then harsher penalties need apply. That is actually in our rules. No one should comment I'm what is said in the tribunal, but if you put yourself on a position to get tossed then you have to take your medicine. Couldn't agree more, it just seems the doctor keeps giving out different prescriptions for the same aliment. |
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