Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2011 20:46:57 GMT 10
Not a lot of information coming out of the winter leagues with under two weeks to start date for most.
What's happening in Geelong? Eight teams again in A Grade and A Reserve? Moulton to Deakin, Egan to Guild?
Clinton Lewis still managing the Wildcats despite rumour that JC would take the reins?
Will Bacchus be OK? Two teams or three teams?
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Post by fkl on Mar 29, 2011 6:18:03 GMT 10
Yes it's been a little quiet on the Geelong front, but I am sure they will fire up.
One bit of good news is that saints have entered an all female side in C grade.
8 in. A, A Res, B, B Res. C Grade still to be confirmed.
Change in the clearance process may have a few holding back.
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Post by 3up3down on Mar 30, 2011 12:32:04 GMT 10
Hear there's a new acquisition at Guild that will need a larger wardrobe soon to fit all the uniforms in, couldn't be lack of opportunity...maybe personality
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bigdog
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Post by bigdog on Apr 9, 2011 21:06:27 GMT 10
Dont know who does the draw in this league but jesus I would be pissed if I was playing in either of the bottom two teams from last year they dont play each other till bout round seven and have to play two of the best teams twice each before then. Very ordinary to say the least
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h
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Post by h on Apr 9, 2011 21:44:10 GMT 10
Whole GBA structure needs a little fine tuning.
There are clearly some B grade teams who are much better than A res teams and possibily some A grade teams. We could end up with some A grade teams who would only be middle of the rung B grade side. I do not want to sound critical of GBA as I understand what is required to run a competition.
It might be time to abandon the A/A res and B/B res and remove the re-entry rule. Just have five grades and grade teams where it is most appropriate.
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Post by ck24 on Apr 10, 2011 8:07:39 GMT 10
I am with you there H really needs to be looked at I would think that they have been thinking about that if you look at the guild scores that's not good for the game. Just hope that they can stick at it for the year. They really should go back to the grades of the old days I think that's just a personal thing. Am not having a go at them either I never been on a comp board can only imagine how hard it must be
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bbee
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Post by bbee on Apr 10, 2011 10:39:03 GMT 10
Hmm it all sounds good in theory, im new here and read enough on here to start talking as well. The first thing i have against the old way things were run is that these teams in b and b res that are being compared to a grade standard is a bit far fetched, these teams are playing most other clubs third tier sides and beating them (not all third sides), agreed sometimes smashing them but a thirds team is much different to a firsts side. Our thirds yesterday faced a firsts team, we had a pushing 16 yr old on the hill followed by a 17 yr old. No offense to our throwers they are both learning and will get better, but if they can only scrape 4 runs in i admit a rain shortened game and win by two, how will they compare to what we faced in A grade, all you will get is 4 top top teams and if not werribee who struggle ,you will get colac and corio struggling up there. I have always believed each clubs firsts should play in A grade, sure we can go to B grade and maybe win a flag but you only get better playing better sides not everyones thirds. ok i think thats big enough for a first post. haha
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Post by ck24 on Apr 10, 2011 14:45:43 GMT 10
Hmm it all sounds good in theory, im new here and read enough on here to start talking as well. The first thing i have against the old way things were run is that these teams in b and b res that are being compared to a grade standard is a bit far fetched, these teams are playing most other clubs third tier sides and beating them (not all third sides), agreed sometimes smashing them but a thirds team is much different to a firsts side. Our thirds yesterday faced a firsts team, we had a pushing 16 yr old on the hill followed by a 17 yr old. No offense to our throwers they are both learning and will get better, but if they can only scrape 4 runs in i admit a rain shortened game and win by two, how will they compare to what we faced in A grade, all you will get is 4 top top teams and if not werribee who struggle ,you will get colac and corio struggling up there. I have always believed each clubs firsts should play in A grade, sure we can go to B grade and maybe win a flag but you only get better playing better sides not everyones thirds. ok i think thats big enough for a first post. haha I was not there yesterday bbee yesterday ( If U unsure I do play at the bees) think you might have taken what I said out of context you wouldnt have thirds playing everyones ones u would have all ones in either A or B grade dont take too much out of yetserdays game Colac have played in the last two grand finals and have beaten us when we were in B grade a few years back> I think that the biggest drama is the huge gap between the bottom two teams and the rest. Yes we play div one during summer but its a complete different team during the summer time
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bbee
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Post by bbee on Apr 10, 2011 16:22:00 GMT 10
Dont get me wrong Ck we are boy werribee boys my rant is mainly about the top teams will always be top teams, but do us weaker teams acheive more playing b grade sides or a grade sides. Colac is good but to beat a lara, or ballarat is pushing it, i am all for colac and corio playing up in A grade if that was the case 10 teams, fits perfectly into a home and away situation for the season. I think its easy to remmeber a few years back when bellarine were not that crash hot, they stuck it out and now get a bit of credit and they deserve that. there will always be blowouts in baseball just happens every now and then
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Post by ck24 on Apr 10, 2011 17:19:55 GMT 10
I know what you are saying we were made to come up after winning b grade three or four years ago and no one since has come up since the structure of the league does have to be looked at but and I don't doubt that Corio Colac and Mounties would not be at about the same level as either us or the marsh or there abouts that's what my main argument is about I guess these teams just seem to walk through b grade like the top teams in a grade
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fetom
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Post by fetom on Apr 10, 2011 18:14:57 GMT 10
I see the GBA comp needs a re look at the structure, but poses problems in it's current format. Having to have a A res side to play A Grade kills us (Colac). WE can not attract elite players to our Club as our facilities are not of a high standard, and I do not think A grade games at our diamond would be approved. This year we are again struggling to get two teams on the park in B/B REs and rely heavliy on the re-entry rule to be able to do so. It is a difficult situation for the Board to set the grades etc., One I do not envy, but what are the viable and real solutions, other than Colac and Mounties should go up? I have nothing in mind but surely all the respected baseball brains out there can work on some proper ideas?
B Grade notes. As for Colac playing in the last 2 Grandfinals, I think you will find it was Mounties V Saints in 2009. Mounties having played in the last three Grand finlas, yet all the talk is about Colac. Corio is a pretty strong B Grade club too. Stick us all up to tier one, without the need for the A res and see how that goes perhaps?
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Post by ck24 on Apr 10, 2011 18:55:37 GMT 10
Hey fetom My bad thought u guys played two in a row I did mention Mounties too and you agree with me and h we all seem to think the sticking point is a and a res and b and b res and agree with ur comment bout the being hard for the board and am glad I am not on the board doing it, it def is a thankless task and u are onto something bout getting baseball brains together bout trying to solve it all and btw I know ur facilities are not the beat but all of tour guys do a great job making the most out of what you have and I have enjoyed every time I have played there besides the driving bit lol
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h
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Post by h on Apr 10, 2011 21:25:27 GMT 10
fetom and bbee when I raised this topic i didn't have any individual teams in mind. I have been around long enough to see pretty well all teams successful or struggling at some point.
I think where the structure most concerns me is the inflexible nature of the A and B grades. If a team wins B grade and wants to challenge themselves they have to move all the way up to A and A res (as fetom noted). This obviously isn't realistic for many B grade sides as even when they have dominant B grade teams, bringing their B res into A res is a recipe for disaster. My club is fortunate enough to field four teams this year but we will be seriously battling in the lower two teams. While we have a good group of kids and older heads in those grades I would hate to lose players through to many one sided results.
I don't have a solid solution to fixing the problem. Because the availability of grounds and umpires is currently very efficient, any changes would make the draw more difficult, affect umpire appointments and possibly alter the revenue clubs receive through their canteens.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2011 22:02:24 GMT 10
Great discussion, guys.
It’s good to see GBA structure being spoken about given that the league – like other winter competitions – is facing some serious challenges.
Team numbers have declined pretty dramatically in the past fifteen years (from something like 65 senior teams to the current 38). The extended summer competition places further pressure on players who might be reluctant to commit for twelve months of the year. And there is extra pressure on club volunteers and officials who are involved with the game during both seasons.
The flip side to that of course is that there are people, now, who want to concentrate on a winter commitment alone.
In principle I like the simple idea of having maybe four grades (A, B, C and D), with ten teams or thereabouts in each. Promotion and relegation could apply to the bottom two and top two in each grade (if they didn’t already have a team in the grade involved).
There are problems with that, though. And it’s why leagues like Geelong have stayed with the A, A Reserve, B and B Reserve format.
Having two teams scheduled at the same ground on the same day makes travelling more easy to manage. It makes equipment easier to manage. It makes catering easier to manage. Because it allows for the re-entry rule, it allows younger players more game time. It allows clubs more leeway for interchange of players, especially if they are short of personnel during a particular round.
It allows clubs greater opportunity for team bonding and club building. It allows senior coaches to see younger, developing players first-hand rather than hearing about how they went in the thirds or fourths.
But it makes it tough for winter clubs to be competitive all the way through, if they have four, five or six teams. Although it’s only the first round of 2011, results suggest that clubs are going to find it hard to be competitive in all senior grades when they have to spread their personnel over several teams.
Even though it’s tempting to say – on the past few years’ results – that Colac, Corio and Mounties could go to A Grade, it’s not as easy as that. They are all small clubs who would find it pretty tough going (as Colac and Mounties did a few years ago). To their credit, Werribee made the transition, but they are a far bigger and stronger club situated in a growth area.
Winter baseball is a fragile commodity, especially in the regional areas. Bendigo, Latrobe Valley, Ballarat, North-Eastern and Sunraysia all face the same challenges in trying to get stronger, and bigger, against current trends in the sport.
This is a dialogue that the GBA and the other winter leagues should be having, in conjunction with Baseball Victoria. It is one in which all ideas and all options should be put on the table.
I don't know how many senior teams or clubs have been lost to Geelong baseball over the past decade or two, but I can think of Newcomb, Barrabool, Williamstown, Newport, Leigh, Horsham, Ararat, Melton and even my old Golddiggers. Alfredton is back fielding just one team after being a power in the early nineties. Bacchus Marsh is struggling for numbers.
We can't keep losing teams from competitions. We have to find ways of turning this around so that clubs get stronger, winter associations get bigger and people enjoy their baseball - whatever level they play at.
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bbee
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Post by bbee on Apr 11, 2011 21:09:56 GMT 10
You talk about the old days in the GBA KC and all the teams that used to be involved that are now gone, is it just the GBA that has lost its way or does it seem a growing trend with all winter baseball thru all the associations? maybe summer will go 8 months one day and winter will be no more.
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bbee
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Post by bbee on Apr 11, 2011 21:12:29 GMT 10
And yes yes i know winter and summer are seasons of the year, blah blah but you know where i am going .. i hope
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2011 21:46:51 GMT 10
I know where you are going alright bbee, and it's a good question.
I wouldn't say that the GBA has "lost its way". It's still one of the three strongest winter leagues in Victoria (after the MWBL and Dandenong), but it has declined in team numbers pretty dramatically.
It's not on its own. Bendigo was down to four A Grade clubs in 2010, Latrobe has just five clubs, North-East is struggling, Goulburn Valley has gone out of existence as an association and Sunraysia has five teams (and a bye) in its A Grade.
I don't know much about the league, but Dandenong seems to hold its own (53 senior teams in 2011). Melbourne Winter League continues to be the strongest winter association in Australia (with close to 100 teams).
To answer your question, it is a trend that is affecting all regional associations outside of the Melbourne metropolitan area. In the GBA, travelling may well be a factor (with games spread across Geelong, Ballarat and Colac).
Grounds and facilities might be a factor. For example, I heard at the weekend that Colac is going through a tough time trying to get support from their local council. Yet Guild and Saints seem to be doing well (at the premier grounds) and Werribee has the grounds and facilities to attract players.
So much of the game's progression or decline in regional centres is linked to junior development. In Ballarat, for example, playing numbers declined significantly between 2000 and 2010. With the resurrection of junior competitions and the new, lit stadium, this situation might be addressed over time.
More so than their Melbourne counterparts, the regional leagues need to stay vigilant and to keep working hard. Of course another factor is that the regional leagues have less administrative personnel and less resources on which they can call.
I don't know that summer baseball will ever go to eight months of actual competition, but it could certainly change its scheduling so that the winter leagues were impacted upon (for example, BV could go September - December, leave a couple of months for ABL and then resume from February - April or even May).
Many things are possible. This is why I reckon the wise heads of baseball need to get together to work out a strategy. I note that Baseball Victoria is starting to address the issue of playing numbers by appointing a person to head up its Participation Review.
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bbee
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Post by bbee on Apr 12, 2011 6:57:16 GMT 10
Is it time maybe, of course i am just throwing it out there i dont know th enumbers and stuff, but the GBA to throw a bit of money back to the clubs involved, for example even just a few hundred dollars can go a fair way to cleaning up a ground, reseeding or even a bit of turf, of course it comes back to the club to work together to get things done but most often or not its the small things that can get fixed that can move things on the way. $200 dollars to say a colac who fetom says ground is below par at least gets the little things done. We at werribee i think work pretty hard and as players give a fair amount of time and effort to try and get things going right, im sure we wouldnt scoff at a few hundred dollars, we all know we need a good top up of dirt.
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fetom
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Post by fetom on Apr 14, 2011 14:01:50 GMT 10
We are able to get the little things done, with the few dollars we have available each year, the biggest problems at Colac are sharing with a cricket club, now two clubs, and finding the time between seasons for more serious works to be done without hindrance to the cricket season. $200 would not go far in getting any extra work done. We are looking at in excess of $20k to get the clubrooms and kitchen up to an acceptable standard to get money flowing from the non existent canteen. A functioning canteen would see a return to a cash flow that could be used to improve things over time, but without it we run very close to the red every season. Base path stuff and foul ground we can do, but infield work and outfield re seeding is a major expense both it time and money, of which we have limited supply. Our council rate base can not offer the same funding as Ballarat and Geelong and minority user groups are at the bottom fo a rather large pile of user groups applying for the limited resources on offer. So when visiting the rolly polly confines of Colac's Eastern Reserve, the lump of coal in Colac's crown of sporting facilities, every snag and can goes towards polishing that lump of coal into a sparkling diamond in the rough that will one day shine through and be the envy of ......................................some one I hope...
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bbee
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Post by bbee on Apr 14, 2011 15:48:57 GMT 10
i agree fetom, all clubs need a hell of a lot of money to get things mickey mouse, but when it comes to any cash coming into the club ,any cash is good cash, and if even the association can help out even with the small stuff its one less thing. Like you said every snag sold counts. Our guys will be up there again this year and we will try our best to clean you out of snags and beer. The enviroment you guys present is flawless, and your hospitality is second to none up there. Getting a ground all to yourself is hard enough, but surprising most cricket clubs have good pull with councils, have the baseball aligned themselves with the cricket club, if so the more members the harder the push for council to chip in for joint facilities .
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bbee
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Post by bbee on Apr 16, 2011 11:02:16 GMT 10
game time again, hmm we got more than enough players again this week, tempted to ask the club for an additional side, any other club in the GBA pushing for a C grade side, dont wanna throw another side in c grade and force a bye, hopefully another club is having the same issue with numbers
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2011 11:43:29 GMT 10
bbee, if you are confident about the extra team I'd suggest the club contact Don Stephens re entering in C Grade.
My mail is that one current team is about to withdraw from that grade.
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bbee
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Post by bbee on Apr 16, 2011 20:15:38 GMT 10
i know we are seroiusly lookin into it,we are gonna crunch the numbers this week and will find out for sure by thursday what our situation is.
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Post by wako on Apr 17, 2011 11:22:58 GMT 10
Congrats to Alfredton on their new clubrooms which are nearing completion, right behind the backnet with great viewing onto the field. Very hospitable as well. Best wishes to Chopper for a clean bill of health and return to the field. Saints have over 20 players to return soon and could conceivably have the numbers for a third side in C grade...we'll see
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fetom
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Post by fetom on Apr 17, 2011 11:56:53 GMT 10
bbee, looking forward to your guys at Colac this year, the atmosphere last year with the bus trip was fantastic, we need a bigger beer fridge. AS fo the cricket club allignment, we actually ahd one of our guys playing with them and on thier comittee as well, but there has alwyas been us and them feeling, slowly getting better, but cricket sees itself as a separate entity and joint ventures so far have been lacking. We now share with two cricket clubs as the main oval in Colac is nearly as bad as ours for playing surface. It was hard enough coping with one other club, dealing with 2 is a bit tougher, but we are trying. Council has come on board a bit and we have regular user group meetings with all the clubs and local govt. management, so there is light at the end of the tunnel, just the tunnel is a blasted long one and the light is only a flickering birthday cake candle at this time, but there is smomething there. Besides, if we did not have to work our tails of every season for what little we get, we would become complacent , not appreciate the club we have and the company of others at our meager facilities and the party atmosphere would suffer. :champ:
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Post by bigdaz on Apr 22, 2011 10:29:38 GMT 10
Anybody know how chopper is doing.?? It was a big hit !! Assuming he'll be out a while and already short on numbers anybody looking for a game
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bbee
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Post by bbee on May 21, 2011 10:50:15 GMT 10
Apologies to bellarine in regards to the walkover in C grade by our guys at werribee, just one of those weeks when players get injured and others unavalible. We will do our best to make sure it dont happen again.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2011 19:08:14 GMT 10
Werribee stayed with Ballarat until the eighth, when the Brewers scored five with two out to secure a 6-0 result. Ryan Stewart (three hits and four RBIs, including a two-run homer) and Jarrod Durston (solo shot) led the Guild offence as it forced an 11-1 mercy-rule result over Bacchus Marsh. Saints held top spot after downing Bellarine 8-4. All eyes are now on the huge clash at Lara on Sunday between the Wildcats and Deakin Blues. For all of those inquiring about Choppa's welfare after a heavy clash a few weeks ago, he had neck surgery on Friday. The procedure has alleviated swelling and all is reportedly looking good.
For those who want to pass on their regards or pay the old bloke a visit, he will be in Melbourne Private Hospital until Tuesday or Wednesday (Eighth Floor, Room 831).www.geelongassociation.baseball.com.au
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2011 17:46:31 GMT 10
Not the best of conditions at Lara for Sunday afternoon, although both games were completed. Lara 4-0 over Deakin in A Reserve. In the main game, Lara came from a two zip deficit to forge away 8-3 over the young Blues outfit. www.geelongassociation.baseball.com.au
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2011 10:46:31 GMT 10
Further to my earlier post, Choppa is expected to be discharged from hospital today (Monday).
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