Summer Div 1 Coaches

[Marshy]

I've just noticed two more club coach positions advertised.

So I think the Div 1 (from the season just gone) list now looks like this:

Doncaster
Essendon
Fitzroy
Malvern
Newport
Upwey
(have I missed any?)

How many of the advertisements are are purely constitutional necessities and how many are because the position is actually vacant?

I know that the topic has been discussed ad nauseum in another forum, but could the 33 game season be too much?? In 30 years of playing baseball, I've never seen so many head coaching positions available.

Congrats to Nate on his 2 year signing with the Baycats.

[p26]

Essendon - constitutional necessity according to another post on this forum
Fitzroy - nothing to do with 33 game season as per johne
Malvern - due to 5 year ban of mckenner, nothing to do with 33 games
Newport - relegated so fewer games anyway

Not sure on Doncaster or Upwey but I'd say that based on the above, the currently advertised roles are not evidance of 33 games being too great a load.

[dag]

Wiiliamstown?
Moorabbin?

[Goblin]

Peter Giles has been reappointed as Club Coach of Essendon for season 2011-12

[Chilli Wil]

Apr 21, 2011 16:29:33 GMT 10 p26 said:

Not sure on Doncaster or Upwey

Someone from Donny said in the other thread that Blacky would be out of Melbourne (O/S or interstate) for a fair chunk of the season, so it would be selfish of him to keep the job (and I assume the cash).

Again in the other thread I think someone mentioned that Mitch had enjoyed his time coaching and wanted to focus on playing again, much like our bat making viking friend johne.

Dag, Willy and Moorabin aren't Div 1 clubs.

[rhricho]

wow two superior arguments their guys, well done!!
P26 how would you know that Malty isn't burnt out from all his consistant efforts?
certainly not speaking for him, only he knows why, and really it's only his business?
also you said Newport will be only playing less games now anyway - so maybe your actually agreeing that more games is something tougher to deal with, more to take on, more commitment and energy required, more players to find, more pitchers to chew inns??

Also Chilli have you played a 33 games season yet?? or has your club?
I wish your club 100% all the best but maybe make the call after 2011-12.

do you really think a coach would tell anyone or come on here as suggest yeh I'm done due to 6 more games?? They may do themselves out of any future opportunities

Nate suggested a recent season structure meeting called for some great insight from both sides, so I would say to come on here and write something like above with no substance what so ever, means not that much really....

IMO i do not think it is just coincedence that this many jobs have come up even though I agree that a lot of clubs do advertise due to certain regulations they set.

[The Puma]

Bit early to be hitting the turps isn't it rhricho.

[rhricho]

whys that guv??
you seem very keen to react to a lot I write so what's your thoughts??

[rhricho]

howd you find the 33 game season?

[Chilli Wil]

Doesn't matter where my club plays, I wont get to play any more than 18 games anyway!

I have mostly stayed out of this argument, as until next year my club hasn't been involved in Div 1 for about 10 years. All I was doing was pointing out which coaches/clubs had made what decisions based on other posts in this forum.

My first post contained no arguments and was only restating some facts (about other clubs) that I had noticed in the other thread. But maybe I'll respond to something you said rhricho:

also you said Newport will be only playing less games now anyway - so maybe your actually agreeing that more games is something tougher to deal with, more to take on, more commitment and energy required, more players to find, more pitchers to chew inns??

I don't think anyone throughout any of the arguments about the current structure that any of that is untrue. Of course more games is more effort...DUH!! The argument is, are the 6 extra games responsible for people quitting Div1 as either players or coaches. I'll get back to you this time next year with how Preston handle it.

[rhricho]

My first post contained no arguments and was only restating some facts (about other clubs) that I had noticed in the other thread. But maybe I'll respond to something you said rhricho:

also you said Newport will be only playing less games now anyway - so maybe your actually agreeing that more games is something tougher to deal with, more to take on, more commitment and energy required, more players to find, more pitchers to chew inns??

I don't think anyone throughout any of the arguments about the current structure that any of that is untrue. Of course more games is more effort...DUH!! The argument is, are the 6 extra games responsible for people quitting Div1 as either players or coaches. I'll get back to you this time next year with how Preston handle it.[/quote]


mmmmm - duh!!! haha
and what do you think the result is from this???
players coachers whatever tapering off into lower grades or at worst quitting or players being injured etc etc = (bad) RESULT


you highlighting others comments or views to me almost suggests you agree with P26 that the above club coaching position availabilities have nothing to do with extra games, hence no substance or view, just commenting for the sake of it!

most importantly I wish Preston all the best with 2011-12 it is good to see you guys back upo there. Preston was the first div 1 team I threw at. An absolute power house back then, very scary to pitch at when those guys were swinging tin!!

[Chilli Wil]

As I said, I don't know how the 33 game season stacks up. So, I look at what people post on here to get an idea of why they think it is good or bad. Some people seem to think all the open coaching positions are due to the season structure. From this thread and the other one so far we have:

Doncaster: Blacky unavailable. To do with the 33 game season? IMO no.

Essendon: Constitutional, same guy doing it next season. Not to do with 33 game season.

Malvern: Previous coach serving suspension. Not to do with 33 game season.

Newport: No idea. Either the 33 game season burnt him out and he can't commit to the 26 game season in Div 2 or has decided to let someone else have a crack, or something else I can't think of.

Fitzroy: Coach from last year wants to concentrate on playing at Div 1 level while he still can. Not to do with 33 game season.

Upwey: As above (AFAIK, stand corrected if wrong)

So N. Holmes is coaching Geelong again, was his position up for reappointment like at Essendon? If so you can add Geelong to this list.

[p26]

Richo, you're right. I haven't spoken with malty so can't know for sure his motivation. Even still, if it was the massive effort of the extra six games that did him in (I'd be shocked if it was but I honestly have no idea), then it is only one out of twelve coaches that has made that decision from those motives. An 8% fail rate is hardly a convincing argument is it?

[Marshy]

Thanks for adding a spark to this discussion Cho.

Even though I started this discussion, I have remained quiet because I wanted to see what people's responses were.

I totally agree with you Richo that the arguments provided so far have been very weak.

P26. At the risk of suffering the wrath of your enormous pipes (I see you check in at FF all the time), I would like to deconstruct your argument.

Essendon - Has been reappointed so looks like you were right on this one.
Fitzroy - Johne has clarified. Two to you.

Malvern - You're wrong with this one. Yes, we appointed a coach due to Macka's suspension, but the caretaker, who did a sensational job and would have been offered the role again, can't commit to a 33 game season next year, so is stepping down. Hence we are looking for a new one.
Newport - We have no confirmation either way. Anyone in contact with Newport who can shed light on Malty's reasons for stepping down?
Doncaster or Upwey - No confirmation either way.

So out of the 6 teams looking for coaches, we still have three who we aren't sure of the reasons for the coach stepping down, and one confirmed due to workload.

So to say it has nothing to do with the 33 game workload is a pretty weak stance to take, even with massive pipes.

Please don't get me wrong I am not saying the high number of positions vacant definitely HAS anything to do with the 33 game season, but I am yet to hear a well constructed and evidenced argument that refutes it.

[p26]

Agree, no idea about Newport. Upwey, I am inferring based on a few shared status comments on Facebook that it's not the number of games. Doncaster, blacky being away seems like a pretty fair reason to me.

Split the difference? You take Newport and malvern, I'll claim doncaster and upwey and we'll call it even.

Btw, you guys appointed a new coach yet or what?

[rhricho]

then why don't coaches coach for eva then?
I was mearly suggesting a 100% hypathetical with no revelance to this being actually what is happening with Malty at all, just a query to say - how do you know that this isn't the case their (and this one only) and other clubs may have to face similar situations??
I certainly do not know??
But, why are their ppl on the other side of the argument??
Also, to me coaching is a huge commitment to a club and 90%+ of coaches (prob all really), would be married to the job so to speak and wouldn't have it any other way.
They are there 110% of the time, not just game time, they're there to pick up equipment after training, pack up extra little things, attend meetings chat after hours with players, make plans for training and games etc etc, Much more time than players put in...
They love guys hat puttin it, they love players turing up to training etc. How long can they continue to do this for though?? Until - They wsh to spend more time focusing on their own chances in div 1 or they wanna step asside as they are doing juniors etc, or they have spent 3-4 yrs giving it their best and it's time to step aside! Maybe they want more family time or maybe they're just burnt out and need a break from baseball all together, every case is different.
Marshy original question was, does it seem ironic that so many positions are up for grabs this yr. May not be 100% related to the extra games - 100% agree - but this surely cannot be said that it is a definite NO either.

[oldburger19]

Blacky would have coached next season except for missing the games, as i have stated earlier. BUT, i can tell you as a fact, he wasnt happy at all with the 33 game season and nearly didnt coach last season due to the length and commitment needed.

Just making a point that there are alot of guys who commit and do the job, and want to do the job, but it doesnt mean that they like the current structure.

[p26]

But all those issues you mention exist regardless of whether we play 18 games, 27 games or 33 games richo? I'm not sure I understand what point you're trying to make?

[rhricho]

you serious?
I have a full time job that requires a lot of after hours work, a demanding little fella and wife that works also and am putting in 100% to coach bony during winter - 18 games
If this was a 27 game season or 33 games season - I would not be able to do so!!!!

[rhricho]

as suggested I don't like talking bout my situation and this doesn't reflect on how much I am putting in and how much I am loving my job at bony this winter

[p26]

I am serious richo. Everybody's situations are different. Question, are bonbeach training once or twice per week in winter? Also, not to get too personal, but I would anticipate that you would be paid less to coach an 18 game winter than a div 1 summer coach should get for 33 games (maybe the same per game, but by simple volume of hours they should get more overall). Would the extra cash make the extra games more doable?

I get your argument now, but I'm still not sure I totally agree with it. That's ok too. We don't have to agree. I think it's pretty clear that whether we changed summer to 18 games, 21 games, 27 games, 33 games or 40 games, there will be some people happy and some not.

I think the point that goes around in my head is that some of these coaches people talk about, and some that haven't been mentioned, do way more than turn up to 33 games and 56 training sessions (including pre-season). they man the canteen, help with juniors, umpire, work with players 1on1 etc etc. If we went back to a 27 game season, or whatever other structure people suggest, would they actually spend any fewer hours at their baseball club? My strong suspicion is no. They would put in exactly the same number of hours. I have no evidence to back this up of course.

I think more focus had to be put on how the games are fostered and where they are played, rather than how many. I think this was mentioned by barbs and Nathan as well. Maybe we get more creative so that instead of having to drive to Latrobe, upwey or alton a mid-week, I could play the mid-weekers closer to home and be in bed before 1am.

For example, there are about 12 mid-week rounds per season. I would rather play no Sunday's against cheltenham and malvern to ensure I get at least half my mid-weekers against teams that are less than half an hour away (as a sandringham player).

Surely there's a few tweaks like that which could be made to make life a bit easier for everybody, rather than just jumping on the fewer games bandwagon?

[rhricho]

i know you are, but I just cannot understand why your not really getting what we are really trying to say??
Yes everyone's situation is different - this is axactly what I am trying to say!
you cannot just say 33 games has nothing to do with ppl quitting or stepping aside or whatever because it just might be the case!!

Bony train 1 per week with a feed and some brew's afterwards on a thurs night, we also play sat enjoy a beer (at the home or the club we play at) and then back at Bony to do player of the day where all teams turn back up to present the mugs for that player!!
Lots of ppl being around the club enjoying being part of the whole picture! One of the main reason winter at bony is great fun to be around and we have so many teams this season!!

[behindthedish]

Having known Malty for a very long time, I can tell you he is a ball of energy and puts in a heap of time and effort at Newport, as do others.
Personally, I think he is just stepping aside to give someone else a go, probably a younger guy with the hope of attracting a few recruits next year.

[p26]

Hey richo, I hit the update button too soon. I think you replied before the edit and we end up almost agreeing kind of?

[rhricho]

Apr 28, 2011 14:37:45 GMT 10 behindthedish said:

Having known Malty for a very long time, I can tell you he is a ball of energy and puts in a heap of time and effort at Newport, as do others.
Personally, I think he is just stepping aside to give someone else a go, probably a younger guy with the hope of attracting a few recruits next year.

I hope this works out for Newport 100%
I have been on a trip to NSW with Scott and his parents on a provincial trip and they are fantastic ppl to say the least. My mention of them was 100% hypathetical only - kinda wish I didn't mention them or the club and was prob pushing my point a little hard, however I still think you can't write about clubs like above when you probably do not know the whole story and every little small detail as to why these things occur and ppl move on.

[johne]

I think you will find the Newport position has been filled. A great appointment for them if what I heard up in Lismore is true.

[barb05]

Apr 28, 2011 14:59:10 GMT 10 rhricho said:

Apr 28, 2011 14:37:45 GMT 10 behindthedish said:

Having known Malty for a very long time, I can tell you he is a ball of energy and puts in a heap of time and effort at Newport, as do others.
Personally, I think he is just stepping aside to give someone else a go, probably a younger guy with the hope of attracting a few recruits next year.

I hope this works out for Newport 100%
I have been on a trip to NSW with Scott and his parents on a provincial trip and they are fantastic ppl to say the least. My mention of them was 100% hypathetical only - kinda wish I didn't mention them or the club and was prob pushing my point a little hard, however I still think you can't write about clubs like above when you probably do not know the whole story and every little small detail as to why these things occur and ppl move on.

Richo, they supplied the prawns. They're a no good lot of stinking prawn merchants as far as I'm concerned.

[signs]

Newport can thank Malty for his hard work and it is now time to take a rest, Well Done Malty.
Spies tell me that an old familiar face will be seen at Newport leading their young charges this year

[Deleted]

Care to throw out a name?

[3up3down]

Matt Lawman