|
|
Post by Chardy on Oct 20, 2008 10:58:35 GMT 10
has anyone else noticed the baseballs being used by most teams this year (and last year) are absolute HORSE SH*T??
The leather wears out and goes furry after 2 innings and they tend to develop a lovely egg shape as well.
Who is supplying these balls? I think someone got a good deal on these balls and is selling them at a premium back to the clubs.
|
|
|
|
Post by mc15 on Oct 20, 2008 11:05:05 GMT 10
has anyone else noticed the baseballs being used by most teams this year (and last year) are absolute HORSE SH*T?? The leather wears out and goes furry after 2 innings and they tend to develop a lovely egg shape as well. Who is supplying these balls? I think someone got a good deal on these balls and is selling them at a premium back to the clubs. Wison have always made a crap ball. Mind you, there aren't many better options available. What happened to Mizuno 200's and 106? They were fantastic. They were used at the nationals and ABL for years. Do the VBA still have those licencing aggreements for balls or is it open slather? |
|
puma
Junior Member
Posts: 11
|
Post by puma on Oct 20, 2008 11:20:14 GMT 10
Wison have always made a crap ball. Mind you, there aren't many better options available. What happened to Mizuno 200's and 106? They were fantastic. They were used at the nationals and ABL for years. Do the VBA still have those licencing aggreements for balls or is it open slather?Should be open slather... the ACCC ruled that the ABF couldn't force state and territory associations to use particular suppliers for uniforms or baseballs etc, I'd expect that any attempt by the VBA to force a similar thing on clubs could also get a big red cross from the ACCC. |
|
|
|
Post by Goblin on Oct 20, 2008 11:35:54 GMT 10
It is the clubs that purchase from whatever supplier they choose.
BV is not involved in what balls each individual club decides to use as long as they are approved by BV.
The Competition Playing Conditions state :
Match Balls: In Division 1, 2, 3 Men's Firsts two new Baseball
Victoria approved baseballs of the same brand and type to be
provided by the home Club. For other games two Baseball Victoria
approved baseballs of the same brand and type in good condition
may be used. Adequate replacement of same brand baseballs shall
be available. Vinyl cover Baseballs are not permitted in senior games
Now, which balls are approved and which not, that is another question.
|
|
puma
Junior Member
Posts: 11
|
Post by puma on Oct 20, 2008 12:19:13 GMT 10
for what it's worth... the 4th Div game I played in on the weekend used X-Plate balls...
|
|
|
|
Post by oldracer on Oct 20, 2008 12:34:18 GMT 10
has anyone else noticed the baseballs being used by most teams this year (and last year) are absolute HORSE SH*T?? The leather wears out and goes furry after 2 innings and they tend to develop a lovely egg shape as well. Who is supplying these balls? I think someone got a good deal on these balls and is selling them at a premium back to the clubs. why would it be any different in summer than winter, if the ball/s is/are unplayable, toss 'em and get replacements. They say that the home club supplies two balls when in fact they usually supply anywhere from 4-6, so ask the umpire to flick them and get better ones. |
|
|
|
Post by Chardy on Oct 20, 2008 14:49:47 GMT 10
i've flicked plenty of baseball in the past, they always come back into the games. Stew Howell kept thowing te same one back to me until I tossed it to our bench myself and told them to put it in a bag. Stew asked me nicely to give it to him next time, he was fine with tossing it for good but its just the frustration of these REALLY sh*tty balls.
|
|
|
|
Post by phl on Oct 20, 2008 14:55:05 GMT 10
Baseball QLD had an edict last season. Wilson A10/10 balls only for the Majors. I've seen some X-Plates in Juniors but our Club will only be using Wilson A10/10's or Easton 750's this season from LL Majors up. This year Major A's in QLD MUST be Easton 750's... I bought cheaper Easton 500's for training but they are cr@p Vinyl, Hit like rubber and the senior Pitchers hate them. BQ are not instructing any club as to where to buy them but have negotiated a cheaper per dozen bulk buy rate for all QLD clubs as I understand. I don't see it as an ACCC issue that BQ have enforced 1 Brand of ball to use in Major A's... Up to each Club were they buy them from but BQ have set a max price for suppliers... BQ did very well I think. I am the Equipment Officer for our Club and have already negotiated a cheaper rate than the BQ recommended price as a big club bulk buyer of Easton 750's. It seems a mistake to me that any VIC Major League Club can just supply their own brand each week.  What is the Baseball VIC recommended list of Baseballs for your top VIC Senior Grades? |
|
|
|
Post by mc15 on Oct 20, 2008 14:56:24 GMT 10
i've flicked plenty of baseball in the past, they always come back into the games. Stew Howell kept thowing te same one back to me until I tossed it to our bench myself and told them to put it in a bag. Stew asked me nicely to give it to him next time, he was fine with tossing it for good but its just the frustration of these REALLY sh*tty balls. Yeah big problem when the umps keep throwing the same ones back out. Pitches know if a ball is heavy/light or out of shape. Nothing worse than getting a ball back that you threw out two hitters earlier. So what balls are most clubs using??? |
|
|
|
Post by greatwhitehope on Oct 20, 2008 15:09:28 GMT 10
i've flicked plenty of baseball in the past, they always come back into the games. Stew Howell kept thowing te same one back to me until I tossed it to our bench myself and told them to put it in a bag. Stew asked me nicely to give it to him next time, he was fine with tossing it for good but its just the frustration of these REALLY sh*tty balls. Yeah big problem when the umps keep throwing the same ones back out. Pitches know if a ball is heavy/light or out of shape. Nothing worse than getting a ball back that you threw out two hitters earlier. So what balls are most clubs using??? sorry boys carn't help you i never have thrown a ball back to an ump and have pitched a few times we use wilsons have not had a problem |
|
|
|
Post by oldracer on Oct 20, 2008 15:12:40 GMT 10
Yeah big problem when the umps keep throwing the same ones back out. Pitches know if a ball is heavy/light or out of shape. Nothing worse than getting a ball back that you threw out two hitters earlier. So what balls are most clubs using??? sorry boys carn't help you i never have thrown a ball back to an ump and have pitched a few times we use wilsons have not had a problem you liked em bent out of shape cause you got more wobble and movement, anything for an edge  |
|
|
|
Post by greatwhitehope on Oct 20, 2008 15:15:01 GMT 10
sorry boys carn't help you i never have thrown a ball back to an ump and have pitched a few times we use wilsons have not had a problem you liked em bent out of shape cause you got more wobble and movement, anything for an edge well you know lol |
|
|
|
Post by Diesel on Oct 20, 2008 16:07:26 GMT 10
Waverley has moved to Eastons......
|
|
|
|
Post by johne on Oct 20, 2008 16:09:08 GMT 10
Waverley has moved to Eastons...... waverly should use tennis balls. That way their little park would play as regulation. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2008 17:03:20 GMT 10
Waverley has moved to Eastons...... waverly should use tennis balls. That way their little park would play as regulation. i'd say ping pong balls... |
|
|
|
Post by thegreathambino on Oct 20, 2008 18:33:50 GMT 10
Chardy. didn't you throw 7 shutout innings on the weekend? if you were using Wilson baseballs then they can't be too bad, can they?
|
|
|
|
Post by johne on Oct 20, 2008 19:05:32 GMT 10
Im with you Chardy the Wilson balls (which are used by most the clubs including mine) are terrible. I struggle to think of a worse ball that Ive used. They get rough and fussy very quickly and not many are able to finish a game in any decent state. Im not sure what other options are out there but Im sure there is some better balls than the wilsons. I know everyone likes to pick on Cam (wether its because he is from canberra, plays for blackburn or yall are just playa haters ) but he is right here. |
|
|
|
Post by p26 on Oct 20, 2008 19:08:29 GMT 10
I always liked the Rawlings balls, just haven't really seen 'em round the traps in the last few years. Are they more expensive or something?
|
|
|
|
Post by johne on Oct 20, 2008 19:24:39 GMT 10
I always liked the Rawlings balls, just haven't really seen 'em round the traps in the last few years. Are they more expensive or something? I was able to bring back around 10 dozen brand new rawlings balls from the us around 2001 season. We wanted to use them as game balls at essendon but the league said they couldnt be used. I guess because of that licensing agreement that was in place. The balls were fine for minor and major league use in the usa but not up to vba. |
|
|
|
Post by thegreathambino on Oct 20, 2008 19:27:38 GMT 10
Im with you Chardy the Wilson balls (which are used by most the clubs including mine) are terrible. I struggle to think of a worse ball that Ive used. They get rough and fussy very quickly and not many are able to finish a game in any decent state. Im not sure what other options are out there but Im sure there is some better balls than the wilsons. I know everyone likes to pick on Cam (wether its because he is from canberra, plays for blackburn or yall are just playa haters ) but he is right here. not a chardy hater. though i do think the wilsons have deteriorated in quality over the last few years, i dont beleive it is of any significance. maybe its just that grounds these days are so hard because of the drought and the balls are getting torn apart quicker? i just can never remember the balls getting to the state that Chardy is describing. Rawlings balls usually were a little bit longer lasting but had absolutely no seems. my club relies on its pitching so you wont catch us using them. |
|
|
|
Post by pepperoni on Oct 20, 2008 19:30:53 GMT 10
As a retired baseball player i happened to play in the 3s this weekend to fill in for the lads, i think i faced 1 wiffle ball, a ausport AB50 and a tennis ball and all of which happend to get clubbed for ground rule doubles.... granted the wind was blowin out but it didnt stop the pep from wackin 3 ground rule doubles in our 36 to 2 win. I thought that I was only put in there to to take the shine off the ball as the pitch had some cracks beginning to open up... however the punters threw a couple of water logged buggers in there in my last two at bats which both happend to hit me in the kidneys after a big night at the strippers the night before.
i dont mind those old kenkos that they used to mix it up with in the under 12s....
the louiseville tpx also may have played a part in the double success over the weekend.. havent swung a tin in almost 5 years but gees it was fun...especially when i laced one into that shortstops eye and he had to sit out with a bag of frozen peas on his face for the rest of the game.../// hey kouchy, i caught about 300 flat head last week off the artificial reef from carrum and also spoke to the mop two days ago.. his 4 year old daughter found a floatin body roll past their house in patterson lakes after afl grand final day... it all happens around the bay son, that is all i can say
|
|
|
|
Post by thegreathambino on Oct 20, 2008 19:33:56 GMT 10
the pepperoni is back on the air.
|
|
|
|
Post by johne on Oct 20, 2008 19:42:27 GMT 10
YES! great to have pep back in the forum lineup. He has not lost a step either straight back in to it. Nice work pep.
|
|
|
|
Post by Chardy on Oct 20, 2008 19:49:27 GMT 10
Im with you Chardy the Wilson balls (which are used by most the clubs including mine) are terrible. I struggle to think of a worse ball that Ive used. They get rough and fussy very quickly and not many are able to finish a game in any decent state. Im not sure what other options are out there but Im sure there is some better balls than the wilsons. I know everyone likes to pick on Cam (wether its because he is from canberra, plays for blackburn or yall are just playa haters ) but he is right here. Rawlings balls usually were a little bit longer lasting but had absolutely no seems. my club relies on its pitching so you wont catch us using them. Have you ever seen the seams on most minor league and major league balls? they are virtually nothing, personally I love balls with no seams, I get more movement from them - most guys do, they just don't realise it. The balls also stay tight and stay nice and smooth, the leather is of a much better grade - greedy big leaguers!!! Honestly though, its only since last season that I have noticed these crappy balls and I think its coming from a supplier telling everyone they are getting a higher grade of ball when they are really not. Guess i'm going to piss off a few umpires this year.... |
|
|
|
Post by southside on Oct 20, 2008 21:46:57 GMT 10
Johne and Chards, listen to you guys.. I thought you were pitchers at some stage of your careers, now you think like hitters. I'd think as a pitcher you'd prefer the ball brown, soft cover, out of shape and preferably straight from the freezer.!
The ball measurements for the wilson's and eastons are different (in a way). The ball is measured for diameter around its widest point, therefore, the Wilson 1010's with the massive seams are in fact smaller aroud the leather than the eastons. Hence the Eastons being bigger in the hand tend to sit up a bit and take some getting used to by pitchers to keep down (so I read somewhere). Waverley will see a lot more bombs there this year.
|
|
|
|
Post by Chardy on Oct 20, 2008 21:54:34 GMT 10
I must be different - I prefer to throw a brand new ball.
|
|
|
|
Post by frankburn on Oct 21, 2008 5:59:37 GMT 10
Much prefer a new ball also. Mizuno and Rawlings balls IMO are far better quality than the Wilsons. Wilson baseballs are used in High School ball in the states. After that they are usually ditched. Baseball Victoria should get set on one ball.
|
|
puma
Junior Member
Posts: 11
|
Post by puma on Oct 21, 2008 7:43:36 GMT 10
Baseball Victoria should get set on one ball. Doing so could lead to prosecution by the ACCC. (I am surprised that PBL advised what BQ are doing on a public forum). If the VBA set a directive that only X brand balls may be used, then the manufacturer/importer of Y brand balls could claim that X brand has an 'exclusive deal' and an exclusive deal "has the purpose or effect of ‘substantially lessening competition’ in a relevant market. Exclusive dealing involves one person who trades with another imposing restrictions on the other’s freedom to choose with whom, or in what, it deals. Third line forcing is a specific form of exclusive dealing and is a per se breach of the TPA." |
|
|
|
Post by southside on Oct 21, 2008 8:04:33 GMT 10
That's just swell puma. Clubs don't deal with Wilson or Rawlings, they deal with Ausport, K2 and Fielders. So that makes us a third party. If a brand came out and offered any type of sponsorship to the league, and the league wished to advertise that ball brand as the perferred supplier, then the ACCC code you've quoted above means squat.
As an aside, as long as the baseballs being used can be proven to be manufactured differently and behave differently under certain circumstances (such as wear and tear, discolouration etc) to each other, the league has the right to offer preference to a particular ball. Wilson Raised seam is a prime example, in the US the 1010 High seam is used extensively, but it's not used in all the college systems, or minor leagues. Rawlings have a contract to MLB... and so on. As long as a market remains for the other manufacturers to sell their ball in (juniors and unrestricted ball type at training) then it's not considered an exclusive market.
|
|
|
|
Post by phl on Oct 21, 2008 8:14:21 GMT 10
puma said:
That info was made public on their own website.
As I said, BQ enforcing 1 brand of quality baseball and getting a better price for all clubs is a good thing. The balls can be bought from any supplier at no more than the negotiated price.
I would think ACCC should be more worried about the Petrol prices hardly droping yet oil now half the price than it was than 3 months ago.
Baseballs must be low on the ACCC agenda I would imagine.
|
|
