|
Post by eckersley43 on Sept 26, 2012 9:08:46 GMT 10
Toatally agree with Houghy, especially the point regarding age entry to competition. If you lose potential players at this age, they most likely will move off to another sport.
|
|
|
Post by oldmanriver on Sept 26, 2012 9:31:07 GMT 10
IMO, Womens baseball should be administered and organized by people who are passionate about Womens baseball. With a sound and constructed basis stemming from Admin right through to the playing field only then will Womens baseball become what it could/may be, a strong and viable competition. I feel that not enough effort by BV is put into the running of Womens Baseball and perhaps should hand the reins over to the people that do care about womens baseball.
|
|
|
Post by wyatt33 on Sept 26, 2012 9:38:52 GMT 10
Your trying to be PC OMR! I'm reading between the lines....you want women tO look after their own game. Just say it!
|
|
|
Post by oldmanriver on Sept 26, 2012 10:02:35 GMT 10
PC or not, whether the Womens Baseball is run by women or a mixture of men and women, it is obvious that the BV admin has dropped the ball and it is now time to hand the game to people who care about the direction they wish to see womens baseball head in.
|
|
|
Post by eckersley43 on Sept 26, 2012 17:11:41 GMT 10
What OMR suggests makes sense to me. BV could still provide resources and support. Alternatively BV could create a paid position specifically designed and dedicated to Women's baseball.Did the "wide ranging" review of Women's baseball ever occur?
|
|
|
Post by splitfinger on Sept 26, 2012 17:36:08 GMT 10
Houghy's model seems ideal. They have tried a few different things in the womens comp historically, why not give this a go? At least the division 1 players won't be bored. And in my opinion things may not end up as lopsided as you may think.
Even if you take 2 teams away and make up a few extra games with a few teams playing each other for a third time it could still work.
|
|
|
Post by larry42 on Sept 26, 2012 23:14:32 GMT 10
Houghy's model seems ideal. They have tried a few different things in the womens comp historically, why not give this a go? At least the division 1 players won't be bored. And in my opinion things may not end up as lopsided as you may think. Even if you take 2 teams away and make up a few extra games with a few teams playing each other for a third time it could still work. No doubt I will get pillared for this, but who exactly is the model ideal for? Going by the post you are staing for Div 1, as at least they 'won't get bored'. There is an imbalance whether people agree or not and making this a 8 or 10 team comp is not as ideal for everyone, rather than a few. There must be reasons why clubs such as Geel and Port Melb pulled from Div 1 in the first place. Are Geelong players down from last year? Lead by the former State coach I'd say they are in a good position to know. Port, how much pitching for D1. They are thinner than last year. Those clubs listed to come up from D2, the people posting on here bout those that should, do people know the roster of players that they have available? Do those clubs feel happy bout playing 6 high level, or maybe 9 if the teams are less. Is that ideal for clubs who have already nominated they wouldn't be competitive? Lets see some questions that I don't need answers for. How many players are Geel down from last season? Is Alexis Smith pitching or even playing for Port this year? Is EJ playing or working, Werr different team without her. How many of Wav pitching staff from last year will be able to throw, or play. Are all these teams trying to develop their programs? I think I know the answer to 2, can take a good guess of 1, and hav no idea of 1 so not assuming. Hopefully BV can get something out soon which appeases the majority. While on pathway I'm not sure why there isn't much talk of a lower level comp such as U13. I have raised it on occasion, but the focus is on U15. I can only discuss two clubs which I have had dealings with in tball and U10 level, and those girls get completely lost to the Programs. Port had 7 girls at one stage and gone within 2 years. Wav hav a stack of them, but get lost at U12/13 level. Sorry for the rant
|
|
|
Post by oldmanriver on Sept 27, 2012 8:07:18 GMT 10
There will never be a perfect model for what sides play in D1 or D2 or whatever, the gulf between the two strongest Clubs and the next four or five Clubs will never be resolved unless the other Clubs bite the bullet and suffer some tough love instead of looking for an easy path to nowhere. But once again it comes back to admin and having a set of goals for the Womens League to aspire too. I do remember watching a movie once, A League of their Own. Perhaps it is time for some radical moves to happen here and now as it happened back in the 1940"s. Like most things in this world, there is no point huffing and puffing unless you are prepared to actually blow and blow that house down to get it correct. Stand up as one and demand to be heard.
|
|
|
Post by larry42 on Sept 27, 2012 9:44:23 GMT 10
There will never be a perfect model for what sides play in D1 or D2 or whatever, the gulf between the two strongest Clubs and the next four or five Clubs will never be resolved unless the other Clubs bite the bullet and suffer some tough love instead of looking for an easy path to nowhere. But once again it comes back to admin and having a set of goals for the Womens League to aspire too. I do remember watching a movie once, A League of their Own. Perhaps it is time for some radical moves to happen here and now as it happened back in the 1940"s. Like most things in this world, there is no point huffing and puffing unless you are prepared to actually blow and blow that house down to get it correct. Stand up as one and demand to be heard. We'll disagree here. tough love isn't the way to move forward. It doesnt all come back to admin, its about clubs development of players more so than anything. Its about junior pathways.
|
|
|
Post by houghy49 on Sept 27, 2012 11:37:25 GMT 10
If you take out Doncaster and Springvale, the next 8 or so teams would be fairly even! Teams need to be assessed on their previous years performance not on who may be playing, who may not be playing, who's lost players, who's gained players, who's working, who's injured blah blah blah....
I still think a promotion/relegation format is the best way to do it. You perform, you go up, you don't perform, you go down. None of this pooling crap where teams can and will decide where they finish.
Waverley/Werribee/Doncaster B/Springvale B can all mix it with every other team in that played in last years D1. All this stuff about players ages/kids etc is nonsence. If they can hold their own they should be playing with the best.
Last time Berwick/Springvale (who went on to win the premiership the same season) played against the Waverley team (which really hasn't changed much at all) we won by 1 run off a walk off single.
Sick of hearing it really. Bite the bullet!! Maybe player movements might be a bit different if more teams are playing at the highest level....
|
|
|
Post by wyatt33 on Sept 27, 2012 12:12:59 GMT 10
At Melbourne, the Darl went down last to watch training, and was told they have twenty players. Problem....no one can pitch! As much as Randall would love it, his best option, refuses to pitch because she's worried about hurting herself, yet she'll catch an entire game, and throw to bases no worries. They have a couple of girls that are good hitters, and can play decent infield, but that's about it. They've lost two pitchers in two seasons, and a couple of girls not playing due to pregnancy and young families. It's a shame, because the season after winning the 3div flag, they played in 2nd div finals. But for a bit of luck, they could have won a game too. But last year, with a couple things going wrong, they dropped right off. Well have to wait and see how they go early, but I hope they can stick it out in their div. maybe they can get a couple folk back and rebuild a good side again.
|
|
|
Post by runningbunt on Sept 27, 2012 12:53:09 GMT 10
What i do not understand is why are womens teams so keen to get dropped down to 2nd division?
I play mens 1st division baseball. My team will most probably not be competitive against, Essendon, Geelong or Cheltenham.
We have also lost our two pitchers.
We do not then go to the league and say please drop us to 2nd division because we wont beat essendon.
We fight tooth and nail to stay in 1st division so we can play the best baseball we can.
I would not enjoy my baseball better, if we maybe won some more games, but were stuck in 2nd division. I do not understand the thinking of these womens players that say they will enjoy 2nd division baseball more than 1st division.
Surely the only teams that may beat up on Waverly / Geelong / Port are Doncaster and Springvale 1st teams. So in a fourteen team division, does that not mean they will be a chance to win 11 out of 13 games??
Would that not be fun enough? And they get to play the best womens baseball in Victoria.
|
|
|
Post by oldmanriver on Sept 27, 2012 13:08:33 GMT 10
runningbunt, spot on.
|
|
|
Post by houghy49 on Sept 27, 2012 13:08:40 GMT 10
I agree runningbunt. I just think clubs will benefit in the long run playing their top team in Div 1. Most clubs have two teams, some only with one.... but those that have two teams should aspire to have one in the top grade and then the other team can be for those wanting to have more of a hit and giggle.
Playing division 1 is not only about playing the best level there is, I wouldn't be playing if I was all about winning and winning only! I have fun week in, week out, win or lose. Obviously the ultimate is walking away with the flag, but if it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen.
My winter club is going to be going up to A grade next year. I know I will struggle to cut it against most of the guys in that grade and I'll probably face pitching like I've never faced in my life.... but I'm going to give it everything I've got, as I know the rest of my team and club will, even if we lose every game (which we very well may). It's about building, and I don't believe you can do that playing in the lower grades.
|
|
|
Post by wearnie52 on Sept 27, 2012 16:42:53 GMT 10
Houghy, spot on.
There will always be players who are older, and past playing div 1. But my concern is that if all those players just dissolve, end up in div 2, and decide div 1 is too hard, what happens to the top tier?
I have a bung knee and have barely played a game over the past 12 months, I will likely end up running around the two's and threes if I get the chance to play this year.
But I want my club to always play div 1 baseball and will continue to help my girls get better and strive to play at the highest level.
We are becoming an old club at springy, and with Doncaster currently boating 90% of the junior girls in Victoria, it is likely our reign of being a strong div 1 club will not go forever.
But just like we did 15 years ago, we will go through the good times and the bad and always look at offering girls the chance to play at the highest level.
|
|
mandi
Junior Member
Posts: 74
|
Post by mandi on Oct 1, 2012 17:53:08 GMT 10
Has it been decided yet if there will be 4 teams playing in finals or 8 from the combination of division 1/2? Also is there still going to be 8 teams in division 3?
|
|
|
Post by houghy49 on Oct 1, 2012 20:53:19 GMT 10
Do we even know where we're playing this week?!
|
|
|
Post by larry42 on Oct 2, 2012 19:06:50 GMT 10
well you should know now where you are this week, and Houghy as a PT i'm a little surprised that you would say that age doesn't matter. Or have things changed and people actually get better as they get older?
|
|
|
Post by larry42 on Oct 2, 2012 19:14:48 GMT 10
And as you know thats coming not from a 28 year old, but from a 40 year old who has seen better playing days, and although my mind would love for me to keep doing that, my body and my committment to doing the work, wont allow it. You will get there one day, maybe.
Hopefully now that the seaon is almost upon us the baseball can be the talking point and the new 14 team div 1/2 can just happen without the sniping and back handers given out.
|
|
|
Post by splitfinger on Oct 2, 2012 19:44:00 GMT 10
OK so how do you solve the problem of too few teams in a division? You put 14 teams together to play off against each other. A little left field but worth a try perhaps?
Only thing I want to know is how finals work.......
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2012 19:49:40 GMT 10
splitty, all should now be revealed in a preview of sorts on the BV websites.
|
|
mandi
Junior Member
Posts: 74
|
Post by mandi on Oct 2, 2012 22:51:41 GMT 10
Happy with the 14 team structure, not overly happy with the finals set up, but i guess only time will tell at the end of the season where teams end up. Feel sorry for the teams that finish 3rd or 4th to only get one chance to win a final yet the teams that finish 5th and 6th get a double chance.
However on a lighter note, good luck to all women playing on the weekend, if you get a chance try to get down to cheltenham on thursday or springvale on friday or sunday to watch the junior girls friendship series. These girls are the future of our league.
|
|
|
Post by houghy49 on Oct 3, 2012 9:25:56 GMT 10
well you should know now where you are this week, and Houghy as a PT i'm a little surprised that you would say that age doesn't matter. Or have things changed and people actually get better as they get older? My point was that age shouldn't matter IF you can still hold your own. There are some players out there 40+ that are still at the top of their game IMO. Therefore it shoudn't matter how old people are and all the other excuses in the book I've heard. If a team is still good enough to play at the best level, then why wouldn't they want to?? I guess we'll soon see now that the fixtures are out. Will be very interesting to see if the same thing that happened last year happens again this year.... I think I already know that answer before the season starts though!! GOOD LUCK EVERYONE!
|
|
|
Post by splitfinger on Oct 3, 2012 20:23:25 GMT 10
Is there a 7-run mercy rule in play in the combined division 1 and 2? If I'm not mistaken, division 1 did not have this rule in previous seasons.
|
|
|
Post by eckersley43 on Oct 3, 2012 21:09:56 GMT 10
Yes and yes, Splitfinger. All divisional games are also 2 hours with the five minute rule.
|
|
|
Post by wyatt33 on Oct 4, 2012 7:52:37 GMT 10
Melb are going to struggle fielding two teams. Lots of new girls to the sport, and no real pitching to speak of. The seven run rule will be a blessing at times for them.
|
|
|
Post by gtrain2 on Oct 4, 2012 10:16:53 GMT 10
Feel a little sorry for the teams that finish in the bottom 4. So basically they get to play each other again for no reward so BV don’t have to justify a short season.
Why not play everybody once. Split the division in 2 (7 & 7). Then play everybody in your new division once to decide the finals. All points carry over after the split.
3 extra games which also make the $300plus clubs charge for fees a little more worthwhile.
|
|
|
Post by splitfinger on Oct 4, 2012 13:59:11 GMT 10
Yes and yes, Splitfinger. All divisional games are also 2 hours with the five minute rule. Thanks for clearing that up Eckersley. Does that also mean that they will revert to normal division 1 rules once the "qualification" games are finished? It does seem unusual (in what will end up as division 2) that 2 teams could meet in the finals having only played each other once during the season. Even more unusual if that one meeting occurs in the first couple of rounds. Maybe something along the lines of what gtrain2 has suggested could be looked at in the future. It also remains to be seen what tactics come into play in the last few rounds prior to the split, and how quickly tactics will change for the last 3 games. It's a little like the AFL top 8 where finishing 3rd or 4th can have it's disadvantages.
|
|
|
Post by larry42 on Oct 5, 2012 9:30:40 GMT 10
well you should know now where you are this week, and Houghy as a PT i'm a little surprised that you would say that age doesn't matter. Or have things changed and people actually get better as they get older? My point was that age shouldn't matter IF you can still hold your own. There are some players out there 40+ that are still at the top of their game IMO. Therefore it shoudn't matter how old people are and all the other excuses in the book I've heard. If a team is still good enough to play at the best level, then why wouldn't they want to?? I guess we'll soon see now that the fixtures are out. Will be very interesting to see if the same thing that happened last year happens again this year.... I think I already know that answer before the season starts though!! GOOD LUCK EVERYONE! What i find funny is that you can continue to comment on something that you have little knowledge of, little. And by something i refer to is another club. So stick you pot shots, because none of the girls you refer to read this forum so if its for their benefit your wasting your time. And my better half has given my strict instructions that she doesnt want to hear a thing. Dont give me the player development bs by playing at a higher level or development of womens baseball in general coz thats all bs as well. Development of the womens league has deeper seeded problems that can only be looked at by each club. actually no point going any further because its lost on some people even if they have been around the game for sometime.
|
|
|
Post by The Puma on Oct 5, 2012 9:38:05 GMT 10
I agree with larry, just scrap the womens comp.
|
|