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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2010 9:53:15 GMT 10
I started this thread on the Victorian board - rather than the "General" ABL board - because it is an issue of particular and pressing importance to Victorian baseball supporters. The new league will start in early November and a home ground has still not been announced for the Melbourne Aces. Finding a home has obviously been a difficult call, with Dandenong (day games) and La Trobe (night games) being the front runners. Altona and Geelong have been two of the other options considered. There is another that was somehow overlooked until the past few weeks - Melbourne Showgrounds. It doesn't matter how or why it was overlooked. Maybe it was just too obvious. The Showgrounds are just minutes out of the CBD and are easily accessible - by car and public transport - from all parts of Melbourne. You could not wish for a better location (unless you had a lazy $ 20 million to build a complex). The Showgrounds has undergone a recent upgrade and offers the infrastructure required for ABL purposes. Heaps of parking, excellent corporate facilities, seating for 4500 down what would be first and third base lines, adequate lighting, expansive player facilities and function areas and undercover areas that could readily be converted to hitting tunnels. The playing area would be set in what is currently a square grassed area that would allow spectators to be close to the action. Obviously some money would need to be spent on backnetting, a mound, base cut-outs, dugouts and the like. The grassed surface would require only minimal work to get it up to scratch. The leftfield and rightfield corners would be 300 feet, with 400 feet to centrefield. Extra height could be added to left and rightfield fencing to make it a little tougher for the hitters. While this has not been confirmed, I believe that Showgrounds management is fully supportive of the facility becoming a permanent Aces home. I believe, too, that there have already been positive negotiations regarding rental, lease arrangements and scheduling that would allow the facility to run other events (such as rock concerts). We are talking here about a permanent Aces home, not a stop-gap measure for a season or two. We are talking about a magnificently-located facility that would be perfect for spectators, comfortable for players and that would present with atmosphere in TV coverage to be beamed into United States. I could be missing something here. Maybe there are issues that could not be resolved and in any case the final decision will be made by people who have - rightly or wrongly - not sought input from the baseball public. On face value, though, Melbourne Showgrounds seems a no-brainer. What are the Forum's thoughts?
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Post by mc15 on Aug 19, 2010 10:05:16 GMT 10
I'm with you on this one KC. Think it would be a brilliant location which has good public transport and just off the freeway. Is the lighting up to scatch though for ball sports? Not that it matters this year. Play all day games if it means finding a home there sooner rather than later. I think tis one is the best of the options long term from what I've heard so far
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Post by masters on Aug 19, 2010 11:25:48 GMT 10
KC the showgrounds no longer has a sports field and there is nowhere you could put a baseball field
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2010 11:45:41 GMT 10
"....there is nowhere you could put a baseball field." There are people who beg to differ on your second point, masters.
mc, I believe that the lighting has been assessed and is deemed adequate for night baseball, although some configuration would be required.
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Post by p26 on Aug 19, 2010 13:17:32 GMT 10
a winner if it could get up
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Post by stuartcapel on Aug 19, 2010 13:59:43 GMT 10
Wouldn't be the worst venue.
I have heard that Kingston Council is looking at plans for a stadium to be built opposite Moorabbin Airport and Capital GC near the corner of Centre Dandenong Rd and Ross St, which is I think Heatherton.
For those of you who follow local footy, it would essentially back onto the Heatherton Footy/Cricket Club.
Stadium would hold up to 5000 apparently, but I am not sure on the number.
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Post by Ace on Aug 19, 2010 14:02:04 GMT 10
Would that be allowed by the airport though Stu?
I've heard the reason Chelt don't have lights, is due to the airport.
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Post by masters on Aug 19, 2010 15:01:49 GMT 10
Sorry KC was only in the place last week and work 500m from the joint in you can find more room than a t ball diamond good luck
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Post by johne on Aug 19, 2010 15:11:41 GMT 10
KC - You mentioned that the ground dimensions would be 300ft down the lines. Very very short far too short for a professional standard ground (unless you put a green monster up). However I have heard that the dimensions down the line's at the show grounds would be no more than 220ft due to the restrictions of the facility. If that's the case you simply can not play at the show grounds. It would make a mockery of the game and be reminiscent of the old rugby grounds that were used by nsw abl teams (Parramatta, Newcastle, etc)
I was working near the show grounds last week and paid notice to it because I had heard about its possible use as a baseball venue, and only saw 2 light towers that were roughly 60 feet high. Is there new ones going in?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2010 16:26:34 GMT 10
There are four light towers, johne - one at each corner. Green monster? Well, maybe. Some sort of reasonably lightweight wooden structure could do the trick for keeping a few balls in the park. But if you're right about the 220 feet restriction, then obviously it couldn't be a goer.
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Post by stuartcapel on Aug 19, 2010 16:37:26 GMT 10
The neighbours may have something to do with it ace - they're certainly a thorn in the side of Sandringham - we've been wanting extra lights for years, and need I not mention the fact that the neighbours also object to us putting up a permanent home run fence.
A good point though re the airport - something I hadn't thought of. That area would be a bit off the runway line from memory, and I think the Capital has lights up and down its practice fairway, which would be closer to the runway line, so not sure of whether it would be a contributing factor for it NOT being built there.
Good point though.
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Post by stockley on Aug 19, 2010 16:50:40 GMT 10
Wouldn't be the worst venue. I have heard that Kingston Council is looking at plans for a stadium to be built opposite Moorabbin Airport and Capital GC near the corner of Centre Dandenong Rd and Ross St, which is I think Heatherton. For those of you who follow local footy, it would essentially back onto the Heatherton Footy/Cricket Club. Stadium would hold up to 5000 apparently, but I am not sure on the number. Moorabin is a hell of a long way away from the centre of the city, in comparison, and then from quite a significant segment of the baseball fraternity. For a dedicated baseball stadium to work this time, it needs to be towards the middle ground, not way out west or south east.
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Post by Ace on Aug 19, 2010 16:53:20 GMT 10
Personally I would love it to be built there in the Chelt/Moorabbin/Heatheron are! I'd grab my season ticket straight away!!!
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Post by rhricho on Aug 19, 2010 18:10:48 GMT 10
Dande is a silly Idea and so is Moorabin and I live 10 mins from both.
Attracting new ppl to baseball is what it's about. C.B.D ladies and gents C.B.D.
I heard a suggestion of placing a beer garden in at St Kilda's ground down the RF Line, advertising it as a Belgium Beer garden type thing - "Oh hang on this baseball things quite good" maybe a few punters with nothing to do with baseball what so eva may think!! few 100 meters to St Kilda pubs with live venues + Transport in, Whats all that noise about and music and oversized lights?? BUT CENTRAL TO EVERYONE!!!
Saints grounds already there, why not spend the cash in a spot that will be of value later on not a maybe or a risk?? IMO the moneys a waste in either to far East West or North has to be central..
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Post by Game On on Aug 19, 2010 18:35:30 GMT 10
I will have to say that I agree with rhricho, I also live only 10 minutes either side of chelt/dandnenong, and would love to only travel a short distance to watch these games. However this would not be good for the game as we are trying to build the profile within this country and to not have it in a central location would be a detriment. Has to be in the CBD.
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Post by philallen on Aug 19, 2010 18:55:43 GMT 10
As some of you will know, as a member of the coaching staff, I do have a real interest in the outcome of this discussion and will follow this post with interest.
Intersting posts so far...keep them coming.
Here are some facts that may help. The proposed field is off the Langs Rd entrances. It does have 4 light towers which produce 700 LUX of lighting over the entire field. The positioning of the field WILL allow for 300 ft down the LF line and 290 ft down RF. With suitable fencing this would create exciting ball games. The light towers are high enough, granted if they were higher it would be better, but we have hit balls under them and there is nowhere on the field that it would prove a problem. The field is basically a square and would be unique in that it will be relatively short down the lines, quite deep in the power alleys, and a real challenge in strightaway CF. All of the info. that kc has provided is accurate, and no...it is definately not 220 ft down the lines john. I don't want to influence the nature of the posts here but if anyone has questions, put them up and I will do my best to give you some further information.
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Post by johne on Aug 19, 2010 19:06:55 GMT 10
As some of you will know, as a member of the coaching staff, I do have a real interest in the outcome of this discussion and will follow this post with interest. Intersting posts so far...keep them coming. Here are some facts that may help. The proposed field is off the Langs Rd entrances. It does have 4 light towers which produce 700 LUX of lighting over the entire field. The positioning of the field WILL allow for 300 ft down the LF line and 290 ft down RF. With suitable fencing this would create exciting ball games. The light towers are high enough, granted if they were higher it would be better, but we have hit balls under them and there is nowhere on the field that it would prove a problem. The field is basically a square and would be unique in that it will be relatively short down the lines, quite deep in the power alleys, and a real challenge in strightaway CF. All of the info. that kc has provided is accurate, and no...it is definately not 220 ft down the lines john. I don't want to influence the nature of the posts here but if anyone has questions, put them up and I will do my best to give you some further information. well youve sold me mate. The location is as good as it gets nice and close to bomberland and the lions den Sounds like the best option. Ill go and smack my source who told me 220.
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Post by duke on Aug 19, 2010 20:04:29 GMT 10
Phil.
I've taken a look at some images on the Showgrounds website and there seems to be a gravel or sand track around all of the square.
Roughly how wide is the track and how would it impact on the establishment of a baseball diamond? What would happen to the sections of the track in what would be the outfield areas?
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Post by perfeckt on Aug 19, 2010 22:18:59 GMT 10
Albert Park, definitely gets my vote.
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Post by durds on Aug 19, 2010 22:34:38 GMT 10
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2010 22:51:10 GMT 10
Showgrounds at night..... Attachments:
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2010 22:52:56 GMT 10
During the daytime.... Attachments:
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2010 23:14:02 GMT 10
For those looking to play around with the technology, NearMap should satisfy your interest in regard to location, dimension, access and associated infrastructure. The Showgrounds facility is the square, grassed area. Use your mouse to negotiate around. www.nearmap.com/
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Post by dickieknee on Aug 19, 2010 23:24:24 GMT 10
Always knew this would be a hard decision. It has been shown that Victoria Park and the other stadium venues are out of the running.
In a previous post I supported (and still do) the Alber Park idea. This is going to need a lot of work before November for it to work. For available infrastructure it look's like Showgrounds is the next best thing.
Hats off to you KC. No one in previous postings touted the Showgrounds at all!
Heart says Albert Park, head says Showgrounds
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2010 23:45:47 GMT 10
Thanks for the compliment, dickie, but it's misplaced. I'm just the humble messenger. Nothing else.
The Showgrounds option was identified and has been investigated by baseball people far more knowledgable and visionary than me.
Finding a home for the Aces clearly has been a difficult decision. Whatever the final call, let's all get behind the ABL project and support our Melbourne Aces to the hilt.
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Post by inf3rno on Aug 20, 2010 0:06:40 GMT 10
For those looking to play around with the technology, NearMap should satisfy your interest in regard to location, dimension, access and associated infrastructure. The Showgrounds facility is the square, grassed area. Use your mouse to negotiate around. www.nearmap.com/I was about to post a link to nearmap but kc beat me to the punch! If you use the "Multiview" button in nearmap you can get a sort of perspective view of the area in question from the N, S, E and W. A quick measure from google maps on the site suggest that you can have 300ft line and a 400ft centre field. They might have to errect "green monster" sort of fences but you could always put seats atop of the walls and put bullpens/hitting cages underneath. It is interesting to note that with some minor changes and the removal of minor structures/asphalted areas the fences could be pushed out a little further to accommodate the field a little better, however I am unsure of the light levels if this were to be done. The showgrounds site I think ticks all the boxes where by it is an enclosed site, the seating is already there, corporate facilities are not too far away, there is plenty of room out the back to warm up on other grassed areas, parking is available on site and close to the ground and the field dimensions and seating location would provide a great atmosphere and sense of being close to the action. So far it is all ticks, but will the general public be willing to venture there to see a game, not just the baseball supporters? D
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Post by keips on Aug 20, 2010 0:43:07 GMT 10
Albert Park fans are welcome to come down anytime to a St Kilda game, whether it's for a game or a beer - or both - 7 possibly 8 senior teams this year. For the record, the deck/beer garden will be down the left field line, though it will be the 11/12 season.
Look forward to ABL ball at the Showgrounds, though Victoria Park would have been great too.
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Post by philallen on Aug 20, 2010 5:54:13 GMT 10
Phil. I've taken a look at some images on the Showgrounds website and there seems to be a gravel or sand track around all of the square. Roughly how wide is the track and how would it impact on the establishment of a baseball diamond? What would happen to the sections of the track in what would be the outfield areas? Duke....the track is aprox 15 feet wide and would act as a warning track in the outfield areas. In the IF areas it would become part of the 1st & 3rd base paths. I think kc has added some stuff in another post to show the proposed layout.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2010 7:40:37 GMT 10
Layout would be something like this if the Showgrounds project becomes feasible.... Attachments:
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Post by player to be named on Aug 20, 2010 8:32:35 GMT 10
[/quote]
Moorabin is a hell of a long way away from the centre of the city, in comparison, and then from quite a significant segment of the baseball fraternity.
For a dedicated baseball stadium to work this time, it needs to be towards the middle ground, not way out west or south east.[/quote]
I tend to agree...Moorabin would haves similar issues to the purpose built stadium sitting in Altona.
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