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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2013 20:18:03 GMT 10
With all due respect to the clubs (who no doubt did a great job of hosting finals and made a few well-deserved quid along the way), playing Grand Finals at home grounds is akin to the AFL playing its deciders at Glenferrie Oval or Punt Road.
Melbourne Ballpark is the base for Victorian baseball into the foreseeable future. It should be utilised as often as is possible, and it should certainly play host to Grand Finals.
The state government (and the Aces) have tipped a fair bit of cash into upgrading the facility, whether we like its location or not. How can we expect to be taken seriously by anyone - government and sponsors - if we don't use the place as often as we are able?
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Post by wyatt33 on Mar 25, 2013 7:33:41 GMT 10
Well as a member of a participating club, and hosting a game yesterday, I will say that we were very happy to have two series go the distance! Whether or not people are particularly happy about going out to dandy for a game, (which many did! Thank you all very much)it is a fantastic opportunity for a smaller club, like us to get a really shot in the arm, in terms or bar and canteen sales. Plus, we believe we earned a right to host a game or two, with the efforts shown the last 2 weeks. It wouldn't be fair if Preston were the club that benefitted off the back of two battling clubs in second div, and god knows what bv do with the money they generate at altona! Although disappointed to lose the gf, I'm very proud of our clubs efforts yesterday, in hosting the game. Hope people were happy with the effort. The ground as always was in great shape, and lots of people seemed to enjoy the day.
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Post by baseless on Mar 25, 2013 18:52:52 GMT 10
wyatt I think you need to read what KC wrote again. He puts it better than anyone can. While you might like to look at it only from your position, look at the big picture at what is best for ALL of baseball. Nobody said to play at Latrobe, so I don't know where you get that.Home semi finals can put extra money in your pocket. And to say you are a battling club?? You have a major sponsor and an american import. Some Div 1 clubs have neither. Altona is there for baseball use and Grand final day for Div 1 +2 should be there.
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Post by pirates on Mar 25, 2013 19:47:31 GMT 10
Absolutely correct, will find out more tomorrow night when the question is asked as to who made the call.
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Post by gj on Mar 26, 2013 7:44:34 GMT 10
The bit that I find particularly puzzling (and I'm sure Goblin agrees), is that should Geelong have taken game 2, Essendon would have had to travel to Geelong for Game 3. Why wouldn't game 3 have been played at Altona?
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Post by wyatt33 on Mar 26, 2013 8:50:49 GMT 10
Baseless, don't be a hater! Jealous much? Maybe we are in the position to get a major sponsor because we're lucky enough to have a couple of blokes that can afford to put some cash into the club. As for the import, a flight to Australia isn't that much money, and again, people good enough to house and employ the guys that come out. As for the grand finals being played at club venues, I challenge anyone that was at dandy on Sunday, that would rather have it played at altona. The atmosphere was fantastic, the beer was cold, and the dogs dimis and salad rolls were reasonably priced. I don't think the folk from Williamstown would be complaining too much either! If your going to play a three game series, don't think it's right to have them all at a neutral venue. What's the incentive to finish higher up the ladder? Good job, we finished higher, lets play at a venue that's hardly been used all year(in second div anyway) and give up and advantage gained by our higher rank! I certainly have a different opinion if it were a one game playoff, but it's not. And the reason I mentioned Preston, was because its obvious that if first divs at altona, you need to play 2nd div somewhere don't you? Not a crack at Preston at all, just the logic.
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Post by bobby on Mar 26, 2013 8:59:05 GMT 10
Mot sure you statement about having to play Div2 somewhere else is true Wyatt. Up until a few years ago div 2 GF was played at 1pm and Div 1 was after that but not before 4pm. I like the idea that both Div 1 nd 2 GF are played at the same venue, it gives those div2 teams a look at what they can expect if they move up and it will create a bigger crowd.
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Post by wyatt33 on Mar 26, 2013 9:47:16 GMT 10
True....if the league allowed either this years grand finalists a chance to go up! Like I said, you can have it on one day maybe both games, but what about a series? Where do the second games players warm up properly? I mean Newport were at dandy nearly 2 1/2 hours before our semi final series. Again I'm not going to shy away from the fact we benefited greatly having games at dandy, and I guarantee anyone else would take the chance to host a grand final. You'd be acting irresponsibly to your clubs bottom line if you said anything else.
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Post by bobby on Mar 26, 2013 9:53:52 GMT 10
If the games are are Altona they are allocated times to warm up on the back field, if they dont like that then they can always hit at their grounds and then travel to Altona. It is not a huge issue, understand it is good for clubs to have games as it raises money, but they spent some big $$ on Altona for baseball lets use it to show case the biggest games of the the season.
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Post by bobby on Mar 26, 2013 9:57:37 GMT 10
Another positive for it being at Altona is that the league Sponsors can all be accommodated there and experience a great day at the baseball.
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Post by wyatt33 on Mar 26, 2013 10:12:30 GMT 10
Maybe people have confused my opinion. I think that it's good to play at club grounds, as the revenue is fantastic for the competing clubs. Plus it gives the teams a goal, to try get home field. But I'm certainly not going to grizzle if the rebels play in next years gf and it happens to be at altona. I'm just trying to put forward the clubs perspective. I keep reading what's best for baseball, I think financially healthy local clubs is good for baseball. I can see this altona chestnut coming back if we don't stop soon. So you've got my opinions on the topic, and leave it at that. Again congrats to the premiers on the weekend, and also to the competing clubs. It was a good weekend of baseball in Melbourne!
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Post by bobby on Mar 26, 2013 10:26:17 GMT 10
Wyatt, I can see your point and yes it is great for clubs. My point is whats better the clubs make money or BV puts on a showcase of the best teams, it doesn't matter about Altona I beleive that having both Div 1 and 2 at the same venue helps everyone.
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Post by farnt on Mar 26, 2013 11:09:22 GMT 10
Whilst I enjoyed last year's GF's at Altona, I also enjoyed the local version on the weekend. I agree with you Wyatt - there should be some incentive and reward to finish on top. Perhaps game one at the top team, game two at the second team and if needed, game three at Altona.
I enjoyed the atmosphere on Saturday at Essendon, granted with the kids footy being played next door I parked a fair way away (though still less commute than driving to Altona)! I don't buy the 'no seating' line - bring a chair! Maybe the comment made earlier re seating wasn't directed at Essendon but perhaps Mugrave which is flat and no seats around.
Yes, this 'model' may mean no games at Altona on the Sunday, but perhaps one or a double header. Logistically this may be a challenge to play given a confirmation may not come till 6pm on the Saturday.
Off topic - Wyatt do you think Mulgrave is ready for Division One?
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Post by 3up3down on Mar 26, 2013 11:18:25 GMT 10
"Off topic - Wyatt do you think Mulgrave is ready for Division One?" Of course they are, you read it, flights are cheap, plenty of jobs just jet in a second non-national pitcher for the other 180 innings they will need to cover if they go up.....
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Post by 3up3down on Mar 26, 2013 11:21:42 GMT 10
I think it should be first GF game at Altona D2 Preston on the wed, 2nd at Altona on the saturday with D2 and then 3rd and deciding at top placed teams home ground as sunday at Altona was/is a flop on sunday
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hank
Junior Member
Posts: 29
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Post by hank on Mar 26, 2013 11:31:19 GMT 10
You also forgot 3up that re their juniors, other div 1 clubs will then have a bye due to – THE CRITERIA BEING INCORRECT AND NOT FAIR!!!
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Post by The Puma on Mar 26, 2013 12:42:18 GMT 10
Wyatt could jump on here and say the grass is green and the sky is blue and there would still be poeple who argued different.
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Post by wyatt33 on Mar 26, 2013 12:49:39 GMT 10
Tell you guys what, I don't think any teams in second div will do any good in 1st div unless there is a huge change in fortunes at club level. The big clubs are just getting stronger, numbers wise, and juniors are harder and harder to come by. With only 3 clubs currently with the criteria in 2nd div, it seems there'll be a big gap for a bit longer yet. If you guys from first div clubs are so big about what's best for baseball, then maybe you can come up with a plan that will help these division issues.....or are you all happy to have just 12 clubs in the state and no room for anyone with a different idea about baseball? Wait for your responses!
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Post by bobby on Mar 26, 2013 13:28:14 GMT 10
Not really sure what you are on about Wyatt? how does having a GF at a club ground compared to say Altona have thing to do with Clubs getting stronger or junior numbers?
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Post by wyatt33 on Mar 26, 2013 13:35:03 GMT 10
Chocolate forklift 54!
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Post by perfeckt on Mar 26, 2013 20:40:14 GMT 10
My 2 cents/bobs worth! I loved the vibe and atmosphere as well as the 2nd game itself of granny series of Div' 1 at Essendon and would have gone to Geelong for game 3 if required. It would have been huge. I don't know if those games would have drawn bigger crowds of spectators than if played at Altona but I would have gone to watch. I can see the advantages of home spun GF series games (I took my own chair) and I can see the advantages of some semi-series games on home turf but the GF series I think probably should be all at Altona. The teams and the players that make it to that level could play in a sandlot and still provide an exciting game for those of us that like to watch the best strut their stuff but I digress...sort of. The two teams that played the GF series were from club grounds that have artificial turf, so no disadvantage to either side. Essendon to Altona or Geelong to Altona, both enjoy freeway access. Again no disadvantage. I've been critical in the past about Altona being the premier showground of Vic. baseball but even I can understand that, that's the way it is, barring someone building another stadium elsewhere with taxpayers money. Div'2 and Div' 1, Grand Final series with games played back to back is something I'd love to see.
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Post by pirates on Mar 26, 2013 22:32:02 GMT 10
Well question was asked as to who voted to move the games from MBP? And who made the call? The clubs asked for it was the statement a few weeks ago. Well not one of the clubs had even been asked let alone made requests to shift the finals game away from MBP. What a joke who is running this show and who is overseeing the decision making. Now there is this completely lame proposal to dramatically change the structure of the league. Complete lack of understanding of how a club runs and the resources required.
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Post by perfeckt on Mar 26, 2013 22:40:09 GMT 10
Is there anyone with their hand on the tiller ?
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Post by farnt on Mar 27, 2013 7:32:07 GMT 10
Tell you guys what, I don't think any teams in second div will do any good in 1st div unless there is a huge change in fortunes at club level. The big clubs are just getting stronger, numbers wise, and juniors are harder and harder to come by. With only 3 clubs currently with the criteria in 2nd div, it seems there'll be a big gap for a bit longer yet. If you guys from first div clubs are so big about what's best for baseball, then maybe you can come up with a plan that will help these division issues.....or are you all happy to have just 12 clubs in the state and no room for anyone with a different idea about baseball? Wait for your responses! Wyatt this has been covered to death in previous topics. Maybe get some 1:1 discussions happening with clubs that have built junior programs and try to emulate what they have done with your own bent or even better. We all know it is hard work and needs a lot of commitment. How has North Balwyn gone from three junior teams three years ago to ten this year? How have Reservoir grown? Have you asked the Monty leaders what they have done to build a highly successful club? As a wise sock once said 'Don’t wait for the answers you seek' - go and ask the right questions to the right people. It’s up to you and your club not BV alone. I like your spirit Wyatt – keep taking that passion to the local community and schools and if you have a plan and a dedicated and committed club behind you it may work.
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Post by wyatt33 on Mar 27, 2013 19:56:25 GMT 10
Look farnt not worried about whether we qualify, because as I said, we aren't good enough to play first just yet. We've built our juniors from 1 to 3 to 4 the last three seasons, and they are young sides so its going to take time. I'm happy where the rebels are tracking now. Guess I've had a change of thought process the last 6 months, as its clear, there's a huge gap between 2 b&f and first div. I appreciate the support, and Ive got a real soft spot for the demons, as the Darl does her best work for the girls, there. So I've got to know some good folk down there.
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