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Post by barnesy18 on Mar 15, 2013 15:32:40 GMT 10
Not too sure on the pitching rule but I believe it states a pitcher can't throw in two games of the same round. Prelim final, grand final different rounds so this can happen. A div 1 men's game was replayed 3 or 4 years ago and the closer was able to close the second game also. Game was between geelong and waverley. And the game was replayed at Waverley when the original game was played at altona if I remember correct.
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Post by philniekro on Mar 15, 2013 16:06:19 GMT 10
heard a rumour that both clubs involved in the brew haha have been suspended for 1 game each....thats both teams..any confirmation on this or is it just another ripper firthy...
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Post by thehotcorner on Mar 15, 2013 16:27:36 GMT 10
heard a rumour that both clubs involved in the brew haha have been suspended for 1 game each....thats both teams..any confirmation on this or is it just another ripper firthy... Can confirm. Every player who participated in game 1 is ineligible for game 2.
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Post by Goblin on Mar 15, 2013 16:33:56 GMT 10
And it just keeps coming. A clarification was asked from BV. With the possibility of rain interfering on Sat, we are aware that in the event of washout or no decision, Game 2 is rescheduled to Sun at 12pm with Game 3 (if required) to start 30 mins latter. With this in mind we asked for clarification of where, (ground), the game would be rescheduled to as it is not spelled out in the playing conditions. Common sense would say if washout the replay would still be scheduled for the highest finishing teams home ground, other wise the advantage of finishing higher is negated. We have now been informed by BV that if 2morrows game/s are washed out, the replays of game 2 and the Game 3 if required will ALL HAVE to be played at the lower teams home ground. Ya kidding me right ??.
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Post by headinsand on Mar 15, 2013 16:52:29 GMT 10
Absolutley spectacular, when you don't know what to do. TOSS EM ALL. I notice Goblin once again is on the ball with his little explosion thingy at 2.19pm!!
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Post by matjaz27 on Mar 15, 2013 17:13:37 GMT 10
Any video of the brawl..
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Post by Goblin on Mar 15, 2013 17:33:46 GMT 10
And it just keeps coming. A clarification was asked from BV. With the possibility of rain interfering on Sat, we are aware that in the event of washout or no decision, Game 2 is rescheduled to Sun at 12pm with Game 3 (if required) to start 30 mins latter. With this in mind we asked for clarification of where, (ground), the game would be rescheduled to as it is not spelled out in the playing conditions. Common sense would say if washout the replay would still be scheduled for the highest finishing teams home ground, other wise the advantage of finishing higher is negated. We have now been informed by BV that if 2morrows game/s are washed out, the replays of game 2 and the Game 3 if required will ALL HAVE to be played at the lower teams home ground. Ya kidding me right ??. Nate, Are able to shed any light on this ? Was it a decision of SLC or was this a decision by the Comp Co-ord. Either way it makes little sense.
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Post by aueagle30 on Mar 15, 2013 17:43:32 GMT 10
Goblin, this has been the case since the three-game series was first introduced... I was at the meeting where the concept was first developed... originally, the idea was presented with the highest placed team hosting both games 2 and 3.
There was concern that a Melbourne team might have to travel to Geelong twice on a weekend, so the split was created.
In the case of a team travelling to Geelong on the Saturday, it was determined as 'not fair' to make that team travel again on the Sunday, so the current situation was developed.
These ideas were developed and agreed to by club reps at the time.
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Post by The Puma on Mar 15, 2013 17:56:35 GMT 10
I'm curious as to why BV have in the past threatened employees with dismissal for posting on the forum, one receiving a written warinig for posting details of a come and try day. And recently warned a volunteer that posting on the forum was banned. Once again for posting baseball related info. You you seem to be able to freely post BV matters with no recourse. Please note, I'm not encouraging censorship, in fact, the opposite. Puma, I'm not an employee of BV... My position on the SLC is voluntary. I was active on this forum before my role began with the SLC (mid-2012). I was not told at the time to cease my involvement with the forum, nor have I been warned off my continued involvement. I've long expressed my frustration and concern at what I've considered poor communication from BV and the SLC in the past... I've expressed to the administrators that better communication would assist in improving the relationship between the league and the members, and present the administration as a leader on issues, rather than a plodder. As long as our community remains diverse, we'll always differ on opinions, but the real breakdown has come about because members are often left to feel uninformed and unimportant. I try to use my involvement on this forum to provide some insight into the processes taken by the SLC... I hope my insight might help to bridge the communication breakdown in some way. I'm not sure it's working, to be honest! If BV or the SLC are unhappy with my postings, they're yet to inform me. You'll be the first to know if that changes. Was not having a crack at you mate, I am sure you read the sarcasm. The double standards, not just in this but in alot of things BV do just seem astounding from an outside point.
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Post by coachstu on Mar 15, 2013 18:05:03 GMT 10
So does that mean 20+ players were reported at the time or are we assuming all players, except the bench players, were involved?
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Post by peterbrand on Mar 15, 2013 18:06:55 GMT 10
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Post by The Puma on Mar 15, 2013 18:21:06 GMT 10
If BV are stupid enough to take any action against the masters teams then I would imagine that next season there will be not only a seperate womens comp but also a masters.
"A man's got to know his limitations"
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Post by Goblin on Mar 15, 2013 19:27:46 GMT 10
Following a larger than usual number of incidents, the Summer League issues the following update. As an update on recent issues regarding Summer League games, please note the following; Umpire Escorts Following a recent assault and regular intimidation of umpires, Baseball Victoria is requiring clubs participating in the Summer League senior competition play-offs to nominate a responsible person to act as an Umpire Escort. This requirement is compulsory for the remainder of this season for both participating clubs. Umpires will make note on the Match Report Card/Sheet if this condition is not satisfied. Offending clubs will be fined $500, without appeal. Umpire Escorts are responsible for accompanying the umpires on and off the field at the start and finish of each game. In order to be in a position to protect the umpire, Umpire Escorts must walk beside and slightly ahead of the umpire as he/she enters and leaves the ground. Umpire Escorts are also required to actively insist that their club’s players, coaches, club officials, parents and spectators behave in a sportsmanlike manner at all times. As a reminder to all players, coaches, club officials, parents and spectators, Baseball Victoria By-law 19 outlines expected behaviour and conduct at all baseball games. (http://www.baseballvictoria.com.au/site/baseball/vic/downloads/Administration/Rules%20and%20By-Laws/Baseball_Vic-ByLaws_2011Sept_Amend2012June.pdf) ABF codes of conducts also apply and can be accessed via the Baseball Victoria website at www.baseballvictoria.com.au/?Page=68441&MenuID=Rules_and_Administration%2F24432%2F0%2CPolicies%2F14432%2F0%2CBehaviour_Policies%2F24182%2F0%2F0. Games affected include; Division 1 Semi Finals and Grand Finals Division 1 Reserves Grand Final Division 1 Thirds Grand Final Division 1 Fourths Grand Final Division 2 Semi Finals and Grand Finals Division 2 Reserves Grand Final Division 2 Thirds Grand Final Division 2 Fourths Grand Final Division 3 Grand Final Division 3 Reserves Grand Final Division 4 North West Grand Final Division 4 East Grand Final Division 4 South Grand Final Williamstown v Fitzroy Division 2 Game 1 Semi Final series Melee Baseball Victoria has been advised of a bench clearing incident during Game 1 of the Williamstown versus Fitzroy Division 2 Semi Final game conducted at La Trobe University ground on 13 March 2013. Baseball Victoria has confirmed that an incident did occur involving a Williamstown runner and the Fitzroy catcher at home plate, and that immediately following this, players from both team benches rushed to the home plate area where a melee took place. It took some time for the umpires to restore order and for the game to continue. This incident is in direct contravention to Playing Condition 26 (e). Accordingly, under the provisions of this playing condition, an automatic suspension of 1 game applies to the Williamstown and Fitzroy players listed below. This suspension is to be served for the game scheduled for Saturday 16th March 2013. Further action may be taken in relation to this game following further investigations. Alleged Assault of an Umpire The Summer League is investigating an alleged assault of an umpire at the end of the game. All participants in baseball, including umpires, have the right to participate in an environment that is fun, safe, healthy and to be treated with respect, dignity and fairness. As a reminder to all players, coaches, club officials, parents and spectators, Baseball Victoria By-law 19 outlines expected behaviour and conduct at all baseball games. (http://www.baseballvictoria.com.au/site/baseball/vic/downloads/Administration/Rules%20and%20By-Laws/Baseball_Vic-ByLaws_2011Sept_Amend2012June.pdf) ABF codes of conducts also apply and can be accessed via the Baseball Victoria website at www.baseballvictoria.com.au/?Page=68441&MenuID=Rules_and_Administration%2F24432%2F0%2CPolicies%2F14432%2F0%2CBehaviour_Policies%2F24182%2F0%2F0. Sandringham v Bonbeach Masters Division 2 South Grand Final The Summer League is investigating the circumstances around the forfeiture of both the Sandringham and Bonbeach Baseball Clubs Masters teams’ game at Melbourne Ball park on Monday 11th March to compete in the Division 2 South Masters Grand Final - and subsequent participation in a non-sanctioned game at Sandringham Baseball Club on Monday 11th March. Springvale C v Footscray B Division 3 Women’s Preliminary Final protest The protest lodged by Footscray has been upheld. Therefore the game will resume at the top of the 7th inning at Springvale Baseball Club on Saturday 16th March to play the remaining 10 minutes of the game. The game will resume at 9.00am. The winner will proceed to the Grand Final and play against Waverley B at 10.00a
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hank
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Post by hank on Mar 15, 2013 19:41:26 GMT 10
Melee's, Umpires being (allegedly) assaulted, wow! All this on the back of our ABL team finishing where they did! Gee, baseball in Victoria is looking fantastic at the moment! Would it be safe to say that some are spoiling it for others? Or is our sport going through a tough time at the moment??
Baseball altercations have been going on for years, many would also say that it would be sorted then and there? Hmmm not sure it works like that nowadays. Everyone for years have loved super competitive spirited baseball especially during finals time, but I just wonder if the respect for the game and/or anyone else (opp team or umpires, spectators etc etc) has gone or is slowly slipping away!! Be interested in how others view this! Call it negative or an overreaction?? I don't care, I just call it as I see it! After all this is a forum and that is kind of why I am on here to offer opinions and express my love of the sport also!
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Post by Goblin on Mar 15, 2013 19:57:03 GMT 10
Goblin, this has been the case since the three-game series was first introduced... I was at the meeting where the concept was first developed... originally, the idea was presented with the highest placed team hosting both games 2 and 3. There was concern that a Melbourne team might have to travel to Geelong twice on a weekend, so the split was created. In the case of a team travelling to Geelong on the Saturday, it was determined as 'not fair' to make that team travel again on the Sunday, so the current situation was developed. These ideas were developed and agreed to by club reps at the time. Thanks for the feedback Nate. In that case the decision they reached is fundamentally wrong. The whole point is that it comes down the pecking order. Teams finishing 1st win the right to host Game 2 at home. What the SLC is doing is rewarding teams who did not earn the right to do so. In the case of game 2 washouts they are penalizing the team who over 33 rounds won the right. If whatever team finished on top they would deserve No1 seeding and with it the spoils. Should be irrelevant their location. It other teams don't like it, easy fixed, next year make sure they finish on top.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2013 20:06:49 GMT 10
In light of recent events (stemming back further than Wednesday night), I think it's a good idea that "Umpire Escort's" have been introduced.
However, does noone else find it sad that this is what our beloved game has come to in Victoria?
I'll admit that I probably don't have an amazing rapport with umpires, and indeed they will make mistakes. As will all of us playing the game - we're all human after all.
But it's crazy to think that now these guys and girls who volunteer their mornings/afternoons to officiate our games for us, need to be escorted/protected to and from the field?
It's definitely not a good thing for this sport. And I certainly hope that we don't lose any umpires after this Summer, though I could understand if we do.
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Post by crogers20 on Mar 15, 2013 20:21:43 GMT 10
However, does noone else find it sad that this is what our beloved game has come to in Victoria? I'll admit that I probably don't have an amazing rapport with umpires, and indeed they will make mistakes. As will all of us playing the game - we're all human after all. But it's crazy to think that now these guys and girls who volunteer their mornings/afternoons to officiate our games for us, need to be escorted/protected to and from the field? It's definitely not a good thing for this sport. And I certainly hope that we don't lose any umpires after this Summer, though I could understand if we do. Yep, feels like the beginning of the end doesn't it? Bodyguards for umpires, next soccer-style cages for 'supporters'?
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Post by perfeckt on Mar 15, 2013 20:37:41 GMT 10
Wow!!!!! To coin a phrase, "What a week in baseball". If (I wasn't there so it's a big IF) an umpire was "assaulted" and/or battered, off or on the field of play, then that action is open to criminal charges and/or civil action. Forget about in-house sanctions, it simply cannot be condoned by anything less. Let's not forget the Leigh Mathews incident on the field of play in a contact sport that was noted for its "hard men",. He was charged with a criminal offense. Earlier this season a Cheltenham player charged off-field and through an opposition dug-out to get at an opposition spectator that resulted in an unseemly melee off the field of play. The player got a substantive penalty (deserved) but was open with his contrition by way of a very public apology and took his lumps. 2 seasons ago another clubs' team member was penalized with a long (years!) suspension for his altercation with an umpire but this 11th. hour dictate by MBSL that for the rest of the finals every umpire must be "escorted" on and of the field of play, smacks of knee jerk re-action and creates an otherwise inclusive situation into an 'us and them' dynamic that will affect the teams and the umpire community. In an effort to placate an obviously pissed off umpire community, MBSL has tarred the entire league of players with the same brush. The brush only held by the few and not the many. There is NO excuse for physical attacks in baseball, it points toward the lack of discipline, lack of focus and lack of the individuals respect of their opponent, their own team and by extension their own clubs values. I sincerely hope that every elite player can focus on the remaining finals games and remember that the outcome of their match's are up to them. Not the umpires. Not the spectators.
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bp34
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Post by bp34 on Mar 15, 2013 20:52:35 GMT 10
BV what have you done.. Really.... body guards for umpires? What's that going to achieve? We struggle enough as is for participation of players an umpires. This knee jerk reaction of having the umpires escorted on and off the field will only push people away from this great game. What next, dugouts to be manned by security guards?? Seriously is it too much to ask to play 9 innings of baseball, shake hands and have a beer with the opposition and umpires afterwards?? After all it is 'just a game'
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Post by secondbase on Mar 15, 2013 21:11:29 GMT 10
I understand your sentiments bp34, but maybe BV's hand was forced by "duty of care" considerations. Not sure where Perfeckt gets to the conclusion of the "obviously pissed off Umpire Community" ..or are you suggesting that the umpires had input into the decision?
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Post by theolderiget on Mar 15, 2013 21:36:14 GMT 10
Baseball Victoria are to be congratulated for their strong reaction to what is a very serious situation. Why on earth would any young person consider taking up umpiring when they know full well that they will be a regular target of abuse from both inside and outside the fence. Respect for umpires has been on the decline for a number of years and it is time that all Clubs started providing leadership in pulling their players and supporters in to line. The "minder" role might be a step in the right direction. The people chosen to be the Escorts will need to be strong characters willing to tackle a serious issue head on. "Umpire Escorts are also required to actively insist that their club’s players, coaches, club officials, parents and spectators behave in a sportsmanlike manner at all times". We all should remember that even a bad umpire is better than no umpire at all. I wish Baseball Victoria well in trying to make our game better for EVERYONE. Read more: baseballradio.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=bvcompetitions&action=display&thread=3460&page=3#ixzz2NbfrhpTp
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Post by coolpappa on Mar 15, 2013 21:39:30 GMT 10
What a sad time for baseball when the actions of one fool spectator can potentially damage a great sport. Would hate to see a headline in the papers reading:'Escorts for baseball umpires after assault" I'm sure that the broader baseball community will wish Dennis all the best and hope his enthusiasm for baseball and umpiring is undiminished.
Love them or hate them - the good, the bad (very rarely) and the ugly, they go out every week and cop plenty of s..t from player and spectator alike. Most of the time they get it right and sometimes they get it wrong, but without them - we ain't got a game!! Show some respect
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signs
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Post by signs on Mar 15, 2013 21:54:15 GMT 10
I think that this is the straw that finally broke the camels back. there have been TOO many cheap shots at umpires this year and spectator abuse has risen so much this year I am astounded by this. Why do we have to have escorts? So that we can have umpires next year!! These umpires try their best each week to do the best they can. How many errors do players make? If umpires muck up 5 ball/strike calls in a 9 innings game (avg 250 total pitches) that is a 2% error. That's not bad. Batters that hit 30% are good, pitchers throw 70% strikes are rated good and yet we whinge about a 2% problem.
How many umpires leave the game because of the pressures that are put on them? TOO MANY
Why do players not want to umpire? If you know the reason tell me.
Something that has been bugging me as well and that is how many clubs have envoked the "responsible serving of alcohol" policies?
I know lots of questions and very few answers, but then I didn't think that the game that I love has resulted in turning to escorts for umpires just like junior football.
Lastly, I am not an umpire just an ex player who has become disenchanted with the game as it is now because the FUN has gone from it and I know that when I played, I played hard but had fun doing so.
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dRoy
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Post by dRoy on Mar 15, 2013 22:08:28 GMT 10
Wow. What a few days catch up I just read.
Ok so I'm a n00b when it comes to baseball rules. But this one is for the women's comp tomorrow morning at 9am. Lets say after 10 mins, scores are level. The next game is meant to start at 10am. 9:30 comes, scores still level. Do they play till there is a winner? How long between games do they need to wait?
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Post by broohaha on Mar 15, 2013 22:34:38 GMT 10
Just wondering if the club itself has taken any responsibility and/or action against this "alleged" assault by one of their spectators. I agree it is a knee-jerk reaction to provide umpire escorts but I also agree that everyone involved in this great game of ours should feel safe to participate at whatever level in whatever capacity without the threat of assault of any kind! Surely more onus should be placed upon the club to take appropriate action and sanction this person by banning them from attending games. Play hard but get rid of the riff raff that only bring our game down and make it hard on the rest of us.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2013 22:35:26 GMT 10
This is a tragic situation on a number of levels.
I feel for the underpaid officials in this case - and for all of the other people who put their time and energies into helping try to make the sport a viable, healthy and safe sporting option for young people.
I feel for the players and for the clubs, both of whom would have gone to Wednesday night’s game simply expecting a tough and fair contest. Neither would have anticipated or would have wished for the events that transpired.
I feel for the administration and the officials of both clubs that have been caught up in this disturbing chain of events.
While the assault on an umpire is inexcusable, reprehensible and may yet involve legal action, I am greatly saddened that it appears to have involved a person with a lengthy and distinguished involvement in Victorian baseball - especially with such a proud and caring club.
The person who is alleged to have committed the assault needs our support, too, at a time that must be shattering for him in the knowledge that he did something that was so drastically out of character.
This is a terrible thing to have happened to the sport – and to all of the individuals involved - at a time when we should be enjoying and celebrating finals baseball.
I’m not sure what we can effectively do to repair the damage caused at various levels, though I agree that Baseball Victoria needed to act decisively to help ensure the safety and the integrity of our umpires.
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Post by theolderiget on Mar 16, 2013 6:39:31 GMT 10
Once again,KC, you have managed to articulate what everyone is (or at least should be) feeling. A handful of outstanding characters sustained Fitzroy through a period when virtually all the other inner City Clubs folded. ALL those guys, from the President down, including the alleged assailant, have earned the support of the rest of us now when they truly need it. We all need to take ownership of the circumstances that have led to Baseball Victoria being forced to take this measure and all of us, need to get back to treating Umpires, Opponents and Spectators with the respect that everyone deserves.
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Post by skinny on Mar 16, 2013 6:54:09 GMT 10
I have tried to keep my mouth shut over this issue but I feel it necessary to same something now.. We all know that I have not had the best relationships with umpires throughout my 30 years of senior baseball, but to hear that one of these guys has been allegedly assaulted after a baseball game is a disgrace. The person who allegedly committed the atrocious act, should not only be banned from baseball for life, he should be banned from any sporting organisation completely for the rest of his life. I know Dennis, not as well as some umpires but well enough. I have had Dennis umpire games I have been involved in before and by his own admission, sometimes he doesnt get it right. But one thing I can say is that if he hasnt got it right, he will be the first to tell you he got it wrong. He also is one of a few umpires that will go out and seek you to clarify something that may have happened in the game. He will ask you of your opinion on his game and listen and take on board, both positive and negative comments. Dennis, I hope that actions of one do not deter you from doing it is what you do on a weekend to the very best of your abilities...good luck.
Skinny
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Post by The Puma on Mar 16, 2013 7:27:13 GMT 10
We all need to take ownership of the circumstances that have led to Baseball Victoria being forced to take this measure and all of us Your kidding right?
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Post by Goblin on Mar 16, 2013 9:49:01 GMT 10
Re the forced continuation of the Div 3 Spring Vs Foots Womens game that was scheduled for 9am today.
The game restarted with 10 mins remaining and Springy leading 11-10
Footscray batted and managed to plate 5 to take the lead 15-11.
Springys final at bat they rallied to plate 5 and regain the lead and win the game.
From all accounts that replayed last 10 mins took 45+ mins and the result ended up the same.
Currently Springy are playing Wav in the Div 3 Grand Final and after 2 inns Wav leading 3-2.
You can keep up with all the action by following the progress of all todays Womens finals by checking out Springys twitter feed.
It is @springvalelions
Good luck to all team playing today
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