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Post by dirtyword on Nov 21, 2012 19:07:30 GMT 10
dirtyword, while I appreciate your make believe inconveniences must have been bothersome for those imaginary souls who had to deal with them, I expected most people would have planned for not knowing the location of that one game when the qualifying draw was released two months prior and it was known that would be the first week of the re-draw. Two months out, and I know the redraw is that weekend... Regardless of your mocking initial comments (kind of expected more from you based on your previous posts), let's take a look at the U12s for this year and last year shall we? The lesser grade season proper last year was divided regionally, this was not the case this year, although funnily enough the grading rounds were? So at least in the short term history, one could of expected that they would be on the same side of the city and close enough to not have to stress about travel (or travel impeded by road closures). Then factor in what I understand is longer game times (if the game is not finished by the mercy rule or insufficient outs), surely you can see that non baseball tragics may have been caught out. One could also say the same of Baseball Victoria? Surely a partially professional organisation, with vast experience at doing this task year in, year out, could quickly and efficiently confirm/change teams and grades, game locations for just the first round of the season proper and communicate this ASAP to the masses. Surely with their vast experience they would have a set of procedures, processes, guidelines, checklist, etc to assist in what I can only imagine is a 'tiresome and mundane' process. As you've witnessed this process, do they have anything to assist them? Or is it starting from scratch whenever the previous scheduler moves on and leaves no knowledge base for the new scheduler to use? Maybe I am lucky enough to dictate when I work a weekend, have no family within 2 hours of Melbourne, or other children/partner who had sport on that day... regardless, I am smart enough to know that not everyone is a baseball lifer who experiences this every year and knows what to expect. Seriously? This is essentially a baseball lifer's forum, so I hardly think a lack of posts on here is a clear indicator that all was good in the junior baseball ranks. Again let me reinforce my initial comment and it's intent. BV doesn't need to provide the ENTIRE draw straight away. Amend the teams and gradings, establish the first round, check off the locations for availability and communicate it ASAP... then push forward with the remainder of the season. Take it as complaining, take it as constructive criticism, ignore or continue mocking the message I've tried to convey... I would expect BV would be grateful for any suggestions that assist in the continual effort of process improvement. I guess I'm mistaken.
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Post by aueagle30 on Nov 21, 2012 21:17:03 GMT 10
dirtyword, let me reiterate, my posts on this forum are in no way endorsed by BV or the SLC, nor do I hope to give the impression I speak on their behalf. I use my experiences of working and volunteering within the BV structure to give some insight into why and how things happen.
My tone was one of mocking and I apologise for the offense caused. My intention was to highlight that when you argue all the problems that MAY have been caused, I can equally argue those problems MAY NOT have been caused. Again, I apologise that my manner was misplaced and caused you offense, regardless of my intention.
Regardless of my time and experience in baseball, I refuse to assume I'm smarter than anyone else involved, particularly when it comes to people's ability to manage themselves and their families. I don't see it as my duty to argue for all those who MAY have a problem... I'll speak out when I have a problem and I'll advocate for those who come to me with their problems. Otherwise, I assume people accept things don't always suit them and they deal with the hand they're dealt.
Again, regarding the fixturing, I understand what you're asking for... BV do use a software program to produce the fixture, however it's not foolproof... it often requires manual adjustments.
Please understand that each year presents different parameters for whomever is creating the fixture... number of teams, field availabilities, etc.
The point I'm trying to convey is that the fixturing is more complex that I think most want to accpet. Games fixtured in the first week have a flow-on impact in regard to return games later in the year and changes may then have a flow on to other teams and age groups... a change in the U/18 fixture could impact two Little League games if a club has only the one field available for juniors.
Unfortunately, I don't think I can truly convey the complexities via posting here... I had hoped by giving some first-hand insight it would be understood that while it may seem like it's an easy fix, it's actually more difficult than I think people are prepared to accept.
Again, my apologies for my poor tone in response to your earlier post... my Mum, my teachers and my coaches all told me my smart mouth would get me in trouble... they were very wise.
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Post by aueagle30 on Nov 22, 2012 9:55:13 GMT 10
dirtyword, further to my reply above, you're correct the minor league competitions changed this year, again. Following criticism after the first year of qualification that the minor leagues weren't regional (a la the previous metro comps) and travel was a concern, the minor league comps were regionalised (at least in majority) to address the concern.
After last season, BV faced criticism that by regionalising the comps it wasn't taking into account the quality of teams and it was blamed for lop-sided games. This led to changing again this year.
Its my belief this constant reactionism is why our sport pitches from pillar to post on admin decisions and why people are left feeling like those making the decisions are wanting in the wisdom required to perform their jobs appropriately... not just on this issue, but I've seen it on many other issues.
One of the major problems, as I've seen it, is our admin is constantly torn between a timely response to a problem and taking the time to make measured and appropriate changes (or even holding firm on a policy).
There are many reasons for this (including the shortcomings of those in postions of authority... we're all human and subject to failiings), but I see the most significant reasons are a growing culture of populism (growth of communication mediums amplifies issues, leading to authority feeling compelled to act in response, praise is amplified feeding a false sense of achievement, but only until unforeseen problems arise, and cycle repeats), and the size of the baseball community (small) makes all noise seem relevant (AFL would never respond to noise from a public forum because the relative noise from a greater number of stakeholders drowns out individual messages... only when a message is received from the masses, will the AFL react... that said, I've recognised changes in the AFL of late that make me believe it's not immune from similar concerns of populism).
It's for this reason I push so strongly against those who believe they should argue on behalf of the masses without any actual evidence or support from the masses. While I'm sure some who do are sincere in their support of those who might be struggling, it seems likely many people are arguing for self-interest and using the 'needs of the masses' to give their argument weight... the problem is, if there's no evidence to support it, it's probably just not true, and if this leads to reactionary policies from our authority, we're only going to be chasing our tail again in 12 month time.
In regard to our junior rounds last week, the BV web site is showing only three of the more than 50 games without scores... could be any number of reasons why this is, but let's assume they weren't played... if it turns out these three games weren't played due to parents not having adequate time to arrange for players to be at the field, then I think you could mount a case (three out of 50 is still a stretch, but I'm happy to work on the idea that if one person misses out, that's too many). However, if its established these teams didn't play for other reasons, the evidence would suggest people were able to work past BV's later release of the schedule and adapt to any inconvenience.
I'm hoping our admin can start to address more problems with this sort of evidentiary approach... I'm tired of our league chasing our tail year after year to make amends for changes introduced in previous years... for this to work, our community needs to be more direct and clearer in our approaches to problems... provide evidence, base arguments on facts, encourage the masses to actually address issues (and not through social media... its a false prophet).
I know I can drag a post out with the best of them... apolgies for taking so much time... but I see this issue being of great importance to our sport... we must get better at understanding our needs and make smarter decisions.
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Post by wyatt33 on Nov 22, 2012 10:39:58 GMT 10
Wako, your happy to pop my opinion on this, but you've just said exactly what I said. My problem is that I'm coaching an u12 side in AA, which is the lowest level. There are three kids that have played before this season, and I wouldn't be going out on a limb when I say baseball isn't going to be the be all and end all in their immediate future. Hence there's no need for them to travel to Geelong to play when the league could have regionalized the lower grades in each age age. So when that doesn't happen, and were drawn to play on the 23rd of dec, well I reckon I've got some cause for concern. I know we've already got 2 unavailable that weekend because they go away. If a couple of others decide to pull the pin because of this we forfiet, and the league fine us! Is that fair? Everyone's happy to lay the boots into the guys with different opinions to others, but all I've ever said is I couldn't give a flog what other clubs teams or people think. I'm only concerned for the best for my team, and my club.
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Post by pirates on Nov 22, 2012 11:00:29 GMT 10
lots of points of view and I’m not saying I have all the answers but I have always struggled with the concept of a huge break during Christmas, even as a player years ago. You go along with it because it seems too hard to change things and seems it’s the norm. Why couldn’t you have the junior season rap up before Christmas, in most cases the majority only have 5 games post Christmas.
We have a big drop off after Christmas in the juniors as some are still on holidays and some find it hard to get back into the swing of things ,parents, for a hand full of regular home and away games. Our numbers are great so we manage to fill all teams and are growing every year. I do remember more than 10 years ago when we ran a terrific Friday night comp with 3 under 12 sides, it was perfect for parents and kids alike. A number of clubs all in one spot carnival atmosphere 1h and 45m game, hot dog, drink and your done for the weekend or free for other sports. The day they announced no more Friday comp we went down from about 36 to 6 kids to play Sunday mornings. When we have run these evening teams we found that it was a great way to introduce kids and parents to the sport but not all move to Sunday mornings because of the travel involved. Winter is not a real option for all as we have a lot of kids playing football and other sports on Saturdays.
Splitting the state into east and west would not dilute the standards in fact I believe it would left the standards across the board as there would potential be more participants and that is what we the baseball community need. Grow the sport from grass roots and don’t throw to any hurdles up as we need our sport to be convenient option to new juniors/parents. At the moment we are preaching to the converted and asking new parents to travel all over at 7am or earlier on Sunday mornings is a big ask.
The league should have a real look at Friday comps with large centers which involve a number of local clubs. We have proposed such a comp to be promoted by the league and the group of local clubs as a baseball centre not particularly directly associated with any one club but a league venue where all the clubs pool their resources without needing to re invent the wheel in promoting the sport.
The teams may not even have to be named after the clubs running it eg they could be Redsox, Yankees or can be aussie based as well. Once these kids move to an under 14 age group the teams could then have a draft arrangement or can be structured in a way that as a club needs a number of juniors they are directed to that club for Sunday comp. There would obviously be exceptions such as friends or family playing at a certain club would take preference, detail can be worked out and in the long run should balance out. This is a concept and I’m sure there are plenty of baseball people around that could work with it and fill in the gaps.
The other issue is not all juniors levels are the same, different needs for under 12’s and 14's to the needs of 16’s and 18’s where there is the most drop off, huge drop off. Why play 18's on a Sunday morning when we know that a lot of these kids struggle to get up early and then some are expected to play in the afternoon. We tried to introduce under 18 Friday night games a few years ago and only had a few clubs agree. It would only work if the league supported it. This would allow these kids the opportunity to be fresh for senior games and allow some to go out Friday and Saturday which I think would keep more of these kids in the sport.
As for the present players and parents, most are fully committed to our sport it’s the new growth that we are looking to attract and lets be flexible and think outside the box.
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Post by wako on Nov 22, 2012 11:18:18 GMT 10
Wako, your happy to pop my opinion on this, but you've just said exactly what I said. My problem is that I'm coaching an u12 side in AA, which is the lowest level. There are three kids that have played before this season, and I wouldn't be going out on a limb when I say baseball isn't going to be the be all and end all in their immediate future. Hence there's no need for them to travel to Geelong to play when the league could have regionalized the lower grades in each age age. So when that doesn't happen, and were drawn to play on the 23rd of dec, well I reckon I've got some cause for concern. I know we've already got 2 unavailable that weekend because they go away. If a couple of others decide to pull the pin because of this we forfiet, and the league fine us! Is that fair? Everyone's happy to lay the boots into the guys with different opinions to others, but all I've ever said is I couldn't give a flog what other clubs teams or people think. I'm only concerned for the best for my team, and my club. No, that's not what I said, but regardless, if your U12 AA team wants to avoid travel and isn't particularly concerned with attempting to play at any particular standard, why aren't they playing in the U12 East Friday night competition? There's even a bye in that competition.
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Post by oldmanriver on Nov 22, 2012 11:58:54 GMT 10
I don't know why this thread is still active, but it does make for interesting reading. Many years ago there was a Coca Cola competition for the suppoosedly best of the best that was broken up into areas so as to cut down the travel. Along comes Junior criterias and some Clubs get dumped while other Clubs thrive. THen along comes Major, Minor, AAA and AA. Major joke as there will always be tankers and talent ridden sides and complete mismatches and grading games that basically mean diddly squat. And reading somewhere in a very recent post, get rid of the grading games and you can finish the Junior Season before Christmas. But let's get over it and get on with the season that has been put forward, suck it up get on with it and just live with it. We know it isn't perfect but this our lot and it ain't going to get any better.
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