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Post by berwickboy on Jul 23, 2012 12:20:04 GMT 10
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Post by Marshy on Jul 23, 2012 14:02:13 GMT 10
I am confused.
Is this the actual plan or just a summary?
If it's a summary, where is the full plan?
If it's the actual plan, wow, it's VERY VERY thin.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2012 15:38:02 GMT 10
I started to read it Marshy but when I saw the pie chart re the spread of registered players in Victoria that read that 'Masters players' were only about 3% of all 'registered individuals' (including Senior Men, Women and Juniors from U12s upward) last year I got a bit worried about the validitity of the other data.
Im happy to be proven wrong but the way I see it we had about 127 Senior Mens teams last Summer (with maybe 10% of these teams having Juniors playing Seniors). We also had about 99 Junior teams (U12s > U18s). We had about 28 Masters teams. And we had about 20 Womens teams.
That to me has 'Masters players' at about 10% (not 3%) of all players (many of whom of course play Sundays as well). So if a Junior plays Seniors where is he counted ?, and if a Masters player plays Sundays where are they counted ? and if a Womens player plays Saturday AND Sundays where is that counted ?
Maybe part of the difference is that the teams data is only the Summer (Metro and Geelong) League data ??
Anyway, re all of this can I ask if anyone saw the demographics chart in an earlier BV paper that showed where registered players LIVED (not played).
That to me would be interesting re the localities of Clubs, Grounds & Facilities, MBP and the Aces (re crowds etc) !
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Post by Marshy on Jul 23, 2012 16:11:20 GMT 10
I am holding off on any comments in relation to what's being presented until I understand the purpose of this particular doc.
It may purposely be high level or superficial as most executive "summaries" are.
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Post by player to be named on Jul 30, 2012 9:38:13 GMT 10
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Post by pirates on Jul 30, 2012 13:01:29 GMT 10
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, d**ned lies, and statistics." Mark Twain….. you read into them what suits the argument from my experience.
the other thing is how many of the masters are also counted as senior club members. I would have to say it appears masters is the biggest growing segment in the sport over the last few years. lots of positive effect on our sport.
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Post by oldmanriver on Jul 30, 2012 14:36:16 GMT 10
I think you will find that these figures are a little twisted to suit their means and justification for their plan. When I heard it being spoken about at the last P & S meeting, I was having trouble trying to fathom the purpose behind the areas chosen for improvements. There seemed to a lot of improvements designated in certain areas and other areas seemed to be purely ignored. Plus I think you will find that Masters players make up approx. 17% of all actual players plus there are fair percentage of master age players not even players masters, so that figure of Masters could be even higher, possibly up around the 20% mark.
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Post by Marshy on Jul 30, 2012 14:54:27 GMT 10
I am confused as to why we are focusing on numbers.
The purpose of the plan is to look at facilities. Yes I understand that we need to put the facilities where the players are, but I still think the "plan" is very thin and doesn't specify what exactly is going to be done.
Ultimately, the two statistics that count when it comes to facilities are:
1. How many players there are
2. Where they are.
For grass roots baseball ( I am excluding the Aces needs here) the facilities are fundamentally the same whether we are talking U14 or Masters.
Am I being too simplistic?
OMR, can you elaborate on exactly what the improvements are and where they are. The plan doesn't detail this?
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Post by oldmanriver on Jul 30, 2012 16:19:59 GMT 10
From the burble that I was listening too, they are looking a Regional centres, ie Mildura and Ballarat and upgrading those facilities to some super standard. I may have been listening in a different slant by that is what i took out of the speech made by Steve Thomson. There was from memory(and it is fading with the sun) maybe Springvale and a couple of other metro areas, but most seem to be in the regional areas.
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Post by Marshy on Jul 30, 2012 16:44:27 GMT 10
Is anyone else concerned about the fact that BV would have paid considerable $$$* for this "plan" yet it doesn't really plan anything??
The way I see it, the first 13 pages are background. That leaves 7 pages, 5 of which are basically diagrams and 1 is a timeline. 13 pages of back ground doesn't constitute a plan. If the complete plan was 150 pages, then you could accept approx 10% of that to be background, but as it stands the document is 65% back ground??
This is what I mean by very thin.
If it was termed a Strategy and BV intended to use it to form a more meaningful plan, then OK, but I am getting the distinct impression that this is it. This is the plan for the next 10 years of baseball facility development.
*This is an assumption based on my knowledge of what consultants charge.
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Post by oldmanriver on Jul 31, 2012 10:02:11 GMT 10
Marshy, your are correct about the $$$'s being spent, probably could have been spent in better areas. The only fault that I can see with this plan is, it is a bit like a Field of Dreams, build it and they will come. It is all well and good to have these superb facilities built, but BV must make sure that these development areas can maintain the necessity of having superb facilities built. One would have thought that getting support for where the mainstream of baseball being played would have been the main focus of this report and not pie in the sky dreaming.
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Post by dirtyword on Jul 31, 2012 11:16:23 GMT 10
Marshy, it is a high level plan, you won't get specific low level plans because it has to cater for a multitude of different scenarios.
First and foremost any development has to be initiated by councils, unless clubs actually own the land. This strategy provides some high level information which BV can use to assist the council and a baseball club or association in building suitable facilities.
I would suggest that the regional facilities mentioned are already in a planning/development stage, therefore included in the release.
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Post by wyatt33 on Jul 31, 2012 12:14:35 GMT 10
They should build a stadium in the south eastern suburbs! That's what they need....yeah! South east! Home of baseball..
Seriously though, I would have thought, as waverley have just accomplished, the development of facilities is something negotiated between the club and their council representatives. Not sure how baseball Victoria can help out. Can anyone enlighten me on whether manningham have completely kyboshed doncasters plans for another ground? Personally if I win powerball on Thursday night, there will be a state of the art facility at Robert booth reserve, good enough for possible ABL games to be played there. Wouldnt that be nice! Also I'd go out and buy the best side money can, and then see what happens! (insert sinister laugh here)
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Post by the_snail on Jul 31, 2012 13:11:18 GMT 10
Baseball Victoria can always say a little something that I'm sure could help push the reasons for why any club would want new grounds... but really it wouldn't affect the decision all that much really...
As for Doncaster... don't quote me, but I heard that the grounds were approved and planning was beginning (i.e. still a very long way off any construction)... then the council (pro-soccer) changed and now they're back to square one...
Also heard that this council was wanting to use the ground for soccer this winter if donny wasn't using it! Imagine how much damage they would've done to it if they got on it!
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Post by oldmanriver on Jul 31, 2012 15:34:47 GMT 10
Well people. after looking at the demographic maps, the south is far to crowded for more development of Baseball and especially a first class facility. Dandenong must be the edge of the border down our way, the Southern area doesn't even rate a mention in this glorious plan.
There are at least six clubs that operate past Dandenong heading south that may have benefited from a development plan. For example there is Robinson Rd Reserve in Baxter that has facilities for Baseball and Softball and with a bit of a shove from some areas in BV, could be developed into a fine Baseball/Softball State Facility. Sometimes looking outside the the foggy crystal ball a little gem may appear. It seems that BV have been rather short sighted with the advent of this overpriced consultant stratagem.
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Post by hightower on Aug 1, 2012 20:22:25 GMT 10
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Post by regularchap on Aug 28, 2012 17:11:19 GMT 10
I started to read it Marshy but when I saw the pie chart re the spread of registered players in Victoria that read that 'Masters players' were only about 3% of all 'registered individuals' (including Senior Men, Women and Juniors from U12s upward) last year I got a bit worried about the validitity of the other data. Im happy to be proven wrong but the way I see it we had about 127 Senior Mens teams last Summer (with maybe 10% of these teams having Juniors playing Seniors). We also had about 99 Junior teams (U12s > U18s). We had about 28 Masters teams. And we had about 20 Womens teams. That to me has 'Masters players' at about 10% (not 3%) of all players (many of whom of course play Sundays as well). So if a Junior plays Seniors where is he counted ?, and if a Masters player plays Sundays where are they counted ? and if a Womens player plays Saturday AND Sundays where is that counted ? Maybe part of the difference is that the teams data is only the Summer (Metro and Geelong) League data ?? Anyway, re all of this can I ask if anyone saw the demographics chart in an earlier BV paper that showed where registered players LIVED (not played). That to me would be interesting re the localities of Clubs, Grounds & Facilities, MBP and the Aces (re crowds etc) ! Honestly, that's what I call a cool story bro. Such a riveting tale, I honestly copy and pasted it to word, saved on my hard drive, backed it up on a jump drive, drove to the bank, put the jump drive in the safe deposit box, and will leave it there until my kids turn about 12 (when they can actually state their age, and ask what it is I'm showing them), when I will pick it up, put it in an old USB drive reader and relay this cool story to them and tell them, "kids, this is what a cool story should look and sound like...not like the stories your generation tells. |
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