|
|
Post by p26 on Jan 15, 2011 17:13:06 GMT 10
You are right stockley, non-national is a nominated non-Australian playing In the first 9 for a club. Doesn't apply to seconds or lower, nor juniors.
|
|
|
|
Post by Chardy on Jan 15, 2011 21:58:09 GMT 10
So all you need to do is enrol the player into the local TAFE and then they are a student.
I've heard Holmesglen has the BEST pottery course on the planet.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ace on Jan 15, 2011 23:09:32 GMT 10
RE: students - valid point.
Students are not considered non-nationals...at least this season, so I'm told. But they would need a student VISA. Not the easiest thing to get without paying large dollars.
What about BV's decision to change the age of permission to an arbitary 16 to play in seniors?
I don't mind this for the boys - but what about girls? This will lose girls if they have to play U/16 boys instead of Div 3 women's.
I coach both a women's Div 3 team, and a U/16 AA team. Put my 14 yr olds against these guys and they'll get hurt. I already had to turn away a 13 yr old this year because the age was set at 14. I would hate to have to turn away 4 more players next year because they aren't 16. The women's game is struggling enough as it is.
|
|
|
|
Post by The Puma on Jan 16, 2011 7:21:48 GMT 10
Its 15 ace, same as this year.
|
|
|
|
Post by regg44 on Jan 16, 2011 19:45:01 GMT 10
My understanding, and also past experience on this, is very clear.
To be classified as a Non National your primary reason for being in the country is to be play baseball. If you are here to work or study, and the visas would confirm this status you are not classed as a non national.
My understanding, although I would certainly stand to be corrected, is non national status only applies to first nines.
BV's change in stance here needs to be clarified, insurance may very well be an issue but if it is purely sbout guys working for "cash" away from the club that is none of BV's concern. And who says all guys work for "cash" anyway. I know for a fact when Richie Benes palyed for us a few years ago, on a tourist visa, he did no work.
|
|
|
|
Post by MF on Jan 16, 2011 20:05:27 GMT 10
To be classified as a Non National your primary reason for being in the country is to be play baseball. If you are here to work or study, and the visas would confirm this status you are not classed as a non national. That's certainly not my experience: guys here specifically to work e.g. transferred here by their multinational employer, or here specifically to study e.g. doing some form of post-graduate degree were considered "non-nationals" by BV. So you might be right, but ... |
|
|
|
Post by Ace on Jan 16, 2011 20:08:03 GMT 10
Its 15 ace, same as this year. Okay, I've been informed wrong. 15. So a 14 yr old girl only eligible for U/16 boys...is going to be better accommodated for there than in lower grade women's? |
|
|
|
Post by pakkyp on Jan 16, 2011 20:31:24 GMT 10
Its 15 ace, same as this year. Okay, I've been informed wrong. 15. So a 14 yr old girl only eligible for U/16 boys...is going to be better accommodated for there than in lower grade women's? So you request special dispensation to play her in U14s... and it's an open competition (not 'boys')... Or you push your club to help the ppl trying to do something for girls of that age... Jade Hough, Simone Wearne for your area (I think that is your area) or contact Mike Slape... |
|
|
|
Post by perfeckt on Jan 16, 2011 20:37:47 GMT 10
It's my guess that the visa requirement changes from BV are twofold (if not more). One of those may well be in response to the new ABL and the possibility of any Tom, Dick or Chuck coming down under and using club ball as a back door chance at getting a contract back in the U.S. and not providing any lasting benefit to Oz ball. Another reason may be that we have got around many immigration and employment/student laws with a nod and a wink by being low key and flying under the radar. These changes sound to me as entirely consistent with Australian immigration policy.
Whatever my thoughts, it seems that BV and by extension ABF are starting to dot some I's and cross some T's with a view to the future. Do imports help develop our skillset ? I think it can't hurt. Will Australian club ball crash because we can't readllly access American players? I don't think so.
|
|
|
|
Post by regg44 on Jan 17, 2011 8:23:12 GMT 10
To be classified as a Non National your primary reason for being in the country is to be play baseball. If you are here to work or study, and the visas would confirm this status you are not classed as a non national. That's certainly not my experience: guys here specifically to work e.g. transferred here by their multinational employer, or here specifically to study e.g. doing some form of post-graduate degree were considered "non-nationals" by BV. So you might be right, but ... I am only going on my experiences here also : We had a guy who interested in playing two years ago who was not here on a tourist visa and BV told us he would not be classed as non national. Was a dud and didn't end up playing so no final paperwork ever went through. Also a few seasons ago Sandy had James Sanders as a non national, and then the two Takas (both on student visas) and a French guy here with his work, they all played in the 1sts as the other 3 were not regarded as non nationals. Which I personally have no issue with. If someone is here to study or work why deny them the chance to play at the level they are capable of. Interesting if you have had differing experiences that perhaps some inconsistencies with Pennant Ctee in the past. |
|
|
|
Post by stockley on Jan 17, 2011 9:12:33 GMT 10
Re: The non-national players
So, in other words, the way to operate in getting a non-national player for your first nine, will be via a sports visa. However, other assessments would be made for extenuating circumstances. Thats how I read it.
BV has finally released a policy well ahead of time, allowing clubs to be prepared for it, and understand it BEFORE they start looking for players for next year. And the first thing we do on here is complain about it being done so early?
RE: the age limit for seniors
They haven't changed the age limit, all they have done is removed the ability for clubs to seek the approval of under age juniors (14 year olds) to play in seniors. A very smart move, since this seemed to become the norm. Reduces the work load on the BV office reviewing all the cases, and also ensures they are covered in regards to insurance/legal implications of a 14 yo getting hurt on the field.
I would actually say this seems like a smart release, to a more professional league.
|
|
|
|
Post by wyatt33 on Jan 19, 2011 7:29:37 GMT 10
No what were complaining about is way the need to change the policy. It's cleary worked fine this year. Why change if it ain't broke? I think that's why the concern!
|
|
|
|
Post by stockley on Jan 19, 2011 8:25:39 GMT 10
No what were complaining about is way the need to change the policy. It's cleary worked fine this year. Why change if it ain't broke? I think that's why the concern! It is broke. For a guy to be brought in and play baseball, there are all sorts of legal issues, particularly around the insurance. Imagine if one of the imports got paralysed, or died while playing baseball in Victoria... If he was playing under the wrong visa, chances are there would be no insurance. That opens up the league - and the future of our sport, to all sorts of litigation from the family... |
|
|
|
Post by oldracer on Jan 19, 2011 8:47:04 GMT 10
No what were complaining about is way the need to change the policy. It's cleary worked fine this year. Why change if it ain't broke? I think that's why the concern! It is broke. For a guy to be brought in and play baseball, there are all sorts of legal issues, particularly around the insurance. Imagine if one of the imports got paralysed, or died while playing baseball in Victoria... If he was playing under the wrong visa, chances are there would be no insurance. That opens up the league - and the future of our sport, to all sorts of litigation from the family... Stockley, the onus should be on the player to have his own insurance as it is with all of the players "covered" by the league insurance which is a farce and non existant. All of the kids that go o'seas to college have to have their own insurance or buy the school insurance, should be no different here, the o'seas players should be made to show their insurance cover negating any litigation on the league. |
|
|
|
Post by wyatt33 on Jan 19, 2011 12:20:26 GMT 10
It's that attitude that is why this problem has popped it's head up! As old racer said, the onus of insurance should be on the import! We all know the insurance offered by all organized sports( baseball included) is appalling, and only gives the illusion of cover. Insurance companies aren't on the business of insuring people. They're in the business of making money! As for an import dying, is it okay if a national gets killed? Will that have less of an impact on the league and the game? Don't think so....
|
|
|
|
Post by stockley on Jan 19, 2011 12:45:46 GMT 10
It's that attitude that is why this problem has popped it's head up! As old racer said, the onus of insurance should be on the import! We all know the insurance offered by all organized sports( baseball included) is appalling, and only gives the illusion of cover. Insurance companies aren't on the business of insuring people. They're in the business of making money! As for an import dying, is it okay if a national gets killed? Will that have less of an impact on the league and the game? Don't think so.... putting your head in the sand is such a better option. a national getting killed will hurt. Absolutely. No disputing that. However, they would be covered by the insurance. Insurance in organised sport is what it is. Never going to change. It is insurance covering death or dismemberment effectively. That is known. If you want insurance to cover injuries - where you don't lose a leg etc, get personal insurance. The problem is that a non-national is not covered by the league insurance for this if they are on the wrong visa. This seems to be what it all stems from (from what I can understand) Whether the insurance should be maintained by the import or not doesn't really matter. The simple fact is that if the import isn't covered, and the club/league doesn't have a CYA contract with the player, we could all end up paying the price, for what is a quiet simple change. |
|
|
|
Post by The Joker on Jan 19, 2011 12:48:48 GMT 10
It's that attitude that is why this problem has popped it's head up! As old racer said, the onus of insurance should be on the import! We all know the insurance offered by all organized sports( baseball included) is appalling, and only gives the illusion of cover. Insurance companies aren't on the business of insuring people. They're in the business of making money! As for an import dying, is it okay if a national gets killed? Will that have less of an impact on the league and the game? Don't think so.... putting your head in the sand is such a better option. a national getting killed will hurt. Absolutely. No disputing that. However, they would be covered by the insurance. Insurance in organised sport is what it is. Never going to change. It is insurance covering death or dismemberment effectively. That is known. If you want insurance to cover injuries - where you don't lose a leg etc, get personal insurance. The problem is that a non-national is not covered by the league insurance for this if they are on the wrong visa. This seems to be what it all stems from (from what I can understand) Whether the insurance should be maintained by the import or not doesn't really matter. The simple fact is that if the import isn't covered, and the club/league doesn't have a CYA contract with the player, we could all end up paying the price, for what is a quiet simple change. What he said. Very well put Stockley. |
|
|
|
Post by wyatt33 on Jan 19, 2011 13:54:22 GMT 10
So that means the wealthy clubs will be the only ones that can continue to bring out an import? I understand. I believe that this will be the end of a multi tiered league. There will be no promotion or relegation soon, and about ten clubs that have all been around a long time will be swallowed up by the larger clubs. This ruling and the junior requirements will see to that. That's great for baseball.
|
|
|
|
Post by pakkyp on Jan 19, 2011 14:16:53 GMT 10
I understand. I believe that this will be the end of a multi tiered league. There will be no promotion or relegation soon, and about ten clubs that have all been around a long time will be swallowed up by the larger clubs. This ruling and the junior requirements will see to that. That's great for baseball. FMD seriously your head isn't buried in the sand, it's buried up your 'burro' It's all a conspiracy from these big bad evil wealthy clubs waiting to pick at the dying corpses of 'about ten clubs'.  |
|
|
|
Post by wyatt33 on Jan 19, 2011 14:48:47 GMT 10
Look forward to bumping into you when we finally get to play berwick pp! I've been told your really a nice guy. Hope you dint disappoint!
|
|
|
|
Post by pakkyp on Jan 19, 2011 15:02:00 GMT 10
I've been told your really a nice guy. Hope you dint disappoint! All lies! I'm a complete and utter a-hole... even my own mother wouldn't pee on me if I was on fire |
|
|
|
Post by wyatt33 on Jan 19, 2011 15:29:09 GMT 10
I would....even if you weren't, but that's just the kind of guy I am!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2011 16:43:01 GMT 10
You get the feeling it might be a game worth going to see, are you likely to both be playing in the same grade  Footscray Vs Berwick is it ? Might be a good game to have an umpire you'd reckon  Im sure youve just been having a bit of fun...its been pretty entertaining though I must say ;D |
|
|
|
Post by pakkyp on Jan 20, 2011 8:27:22 GMT 10
You get the feeling it might be a game worth going to see, are you likely to both be playing in the same grade Footscray Vs Berwick is it ? Might be a good game to have an umpire you'd reckon Im sure youve just been having a bit of fun...its been pretty entertaining though I must say ;D Mulgrave V berwick... Don't need an umpire for behind the shelter shed! Doesn't matter, paths won't cross on the field... more likely at the bar or canteen. |
|
|
|
Post by wyatt33 on Jan 20, 2011 13:43:57 GMT 10
None of that... I fight like ace throws.....like a girl!
|
|
|
|
Post by pakkyp on Jan 20, 2011 13:54:09 GMT 10
None of that... I fight like ace throws.....like a girl! I've never seen a girl stupid enough to throw their mitt and get it stuck in the netting at Chelsea... |
|
|
|
Post by wyatt33 on Jan 20, 2011 15:35:46 GMT 10
?
|
|
|
|
Post by pakkyp on Jan 20, 2011 16:10:18 GMT 10
|
|
|
|
Post by Ace on Jan 21, 2011 18:50:46 GMT 10
I did enough to get a 2 week suspended sentence...
I'm sure I could teach my girls to throw their gloves...not sure that would be the most beneficial skill to teach though!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by Chilli Wil on Jan 21, 2011 19:28:41 GMT 10
Something else to come out of the new changes is the uniform register. It seems that some clubs will have to wear alternate uniforms when playing away to certain teams. It isn't completely up to date, only Blackburn, Chelsea, Essendon, Fitzroy, Malvern, Newport, St Kilda, Upwey FTG and Waverley have been given approval so far, and Preston is still listed as Grey...
From the photos on the BV site, it seems Fitzroy has already taken the step in following MLB tradition that while playing at home white pants are worn, and while playing away grey pants are worn, which I like. What I'm not too keen on is teams possibly being required to have an alternate strip for playing away.
Aside from the added cost of having 2 playing tops, and possibly 2 sets of playing pants to go with it, half our 3rds and 4ths barely manage to turn up with all their gear, let alone having to colour coordinate!! I can see a lot of teams wearing miss-matched uniforms next season if this is the case.
|
|
