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Post by Diesel on Jun 13, 2012 13:25:49 GMT 10
Australian Baseball League or Aussie Banjo League
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Post by homer29 on Jun 13, 2012 13:32:38 GMT 10
If the club were to go down the UStream path and hopefully coverage for those of us who cannot always attend will be available this year, the Aces could get an internet provider as a sponsor and offer discounts on plans for club members to sign up
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Post by moose on Jun 13, 2012 16:07:51 GMT 10
homer29 this is why I have suggested that it should be run as a subscriber type system. If you live in metropolitan Melbourne then you would have to register and pay a small fee to access the broadcasts. Possibly you may include such registration, as a Valued Aces member, in your season ticket. Country and Interstate viewers could register Free.
Such a subscription service could be used to attract a sponsor which would then help improve the broadcasts. Personally I believe that the ABL should become involved in streamed vision of their games, rather than leave it to well intentioned amateurs as is currently the case. There is certainly a market(Cash!) for good games of BB beamed into the states during their off - season as was shown during last seasons final series. Just a few thoughts.
Neil W
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2012 16:54:08 GMT 10
The Aces have drawn spirited comment and created what is thus far one of the more constructive social media discussions on Facebook (regarding streaming of games).
Whatever option is taken, quality control is paramount - in the same way as it should be paramount for all of the Aces' and the ABL's communications if we want to be taken seriously. ABL management needs to insist on a minimum standard in that area.
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Post by moose on Jun 13, 2012 19:28:24 GMT 10
Very interesting discussion over at the Aces Face book site regarding streaming Internet games.
Aces have offered a blackout situation aka MLB for home games or a subscription based service. Obviously the "Something for Nothing is our right" mob appears to be in the ascendancy at this stage but there are some interesting points of view.
Why isn't the ABL becoming involved in this process? They own the product and surely it would be in their best interests and that of their major backers (MLB) to develop a product that is consistent and of reasonable quality. To leave it in the hands of the amateurs, no matter how well intentioned is sheer Foley IMHO.
Neil W
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Post by stuartcapel on Jun 14, 2012 15:32:16 GMT 10
Moose, very few minority sports can get their heads around internet broadcasting, as with no overall agreement with a broadcaster, be they free to air or Pay TV, it is often difficult for the entire league to come together on an agreement. For example, the Melbourne Ice, one of the state's two teams in the AIHL provides outstanding internet coverage of their matches, with commentary, up to six cameras at every game and commentary. The games are broadcast free on the internet at a decent quality (though the speed of the game does not easily allow you to pick up the puck at all times), and the Ice have grown into an amateur franchise that fills at least 75% of the medibank Icehouse at every home match. Further, replays (at some delay) are shown on Channel 31. Compare that to the new Melbourne franchise, the Mustangs, who are in their second season, and have no video or audio streams of their matches. Going around the league, various teams have their ways, but the Ice are clear market leaders in the AIHL.
In the ABL, Perth have set the standard over the past two years. Sure, they had some help, with several thousand dollars worth of equipment having been sponsored (from what I am told), but they have gone ahead and provided several camera angles, commentary and graphics to their broadcasts. I am told Brisbane's already fine broadcasts will improve in standard next year, while the rest are still works in progress. Canberra will progress from having a stationary camera at the back of the grandstand (made for an interesting view of John Edwards' collision with the Cavalry catcher) and without commentary to reportedly having Chris Coleman from the ABC commentate on some matches and I have heard they are looking closely at improving the coverage of their broadcasts from a visual perspective as well. Sydney synched their HHH FM audio with their footage, which improved over the season, however the audio and video came out of alignment frequently at time. Adelaide improved after their hunger for a pie and sauce during the game became a hunger for providing quality content. Only the Aces did not provide video streaming through the last regular season, though cameras were in place for the Preliminary Final series against the Blue Sox.
The Aces question on Facebook regards a blackout or streaming was a major positive on two fronts. First of all, it allowed for feedback on the question from people who the situation would impact (responses were largely in favour of subscription costs, then free to view, and then blackouts), while also suggesting that the Aces were providing the subject with something a bit more than a casual glance.
None of the three options are going to have 100% approval, and all three have their positive and negative points. I don't overly have a preference myself for either free to air or subscription (I don't think a blackout would be a viable option), however I think it would be an untenable situation to have some teams do one thing and the rest do another. For example, if the Aces had a home game and it was rained out and I wanted to watch Sydney @ Adelaide but had to pay for an Adelaide subscription, I'd baulk at it.
If all teams were to have free to air, then all well and good, but if there is to be a subscription service, then it would be of benefit to the fans if the league ran it. A one off subscription cost could allow access to all broadcasts from around the league, and make obsolete the potential issue of having to subscribe to some teams and not others. Further, if run through the league, and they wanted fans to see the product free of charge (rather than paying a nominal fee just to check out what all the fuss was about), the league could open a couple of matches per weekend to view free, much like the MLB does on a daily basis, choosing one game that is free, however the rest are only viewable under subscription.
Whichever way it goes, we're only four and a half months from beginning season three of the ABL. The next two years are likely to be the make or break seasons of the competition (I'd be surprised if the success or failure of the ABL hangs entirely on season five), and topics such as this need to be reconciled correctly and promptly to demonstrate that we as a league, are providing the best business practice that they can. There is plenty of time befoe the next season begins, though that time will go fast. Regardless of which way the ABL and the clubs move, lets just hope all is in readiness for Perth @ Adelaide on November 1.
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Post by texasleaguer on Jun 14, 2012 17:47:30 GMT 10
Very interesting discussion over at the Aces Face book site regarding streaming Internet games. Aces have offered a blackout situation aka MLB for home games or a subscription based service. Obviously the "Something for Nothing is our right" mob appears to be in the ascendancy at this stage but there are some interesting points of view. Why isn't the ABL becoming involved in this process? They own the product and surely it would be in their best interests and that of their major backers (MLB) to develop a product that is consistent and of reasonable quality. To leave it in the hands of the amateurs, no matter how well intentioned is sheer Foley IMHO. Neil W Have to agree Moose, It should be ABL driven for all 6 teams and maybe provide the financial resources/marketing for the entire League. www.ustream.tv/recorded/22828695/highlight/270143It's not a matter of Amateur V Pro, it's a matter of the resources that ABL can afford to provide quality product. As a dedicated Ustream volunteer myself, I don't consider myself as amateur, just that I do it for free with limited resources and no payment. Anyone expecting MLB.TV like quality is kidding themselves. Some of the MILB.TV Minors games are not as good as what HEAT TV did. It's all still online streaming, just depends on your upload bandwidth provider. Blackouts of the Video stream will never work.
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Post by moose on Jun 14, 2012 17:58:03 GMT 10
Well said stu! As usual concise and to the point.
It is obvious that the ABL should be setting the standard of streaming and requiring that all teams stream and be to that standard.
Why re-invent the wheel. The MLB system of subscription with a free game for view for non-subscribers is the way to go. The advertisers can fit their ads between innings breaks for a bit more revenue. A subscriber would then have access to all games being played. Unlike the MLB subscription service, home games should not be subjected to a black out as is what happens in the USA for their subscribers in the area that the game is being played. International subscribers do not, during regular season play, suffer the blackout restrictions.
Neil W
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Post by moose on Jun 14, 2012 18:05:14 GMT 10
Texas that's the meaning that I meant! Amateur as in not paid, not the standard of quality of the stream itself. Both Heat and Brisbane products were excellent and the type of thing that we should be aiming for right around the ABL.
Neil W
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Post by easyout on Jun 14, 2012 18:26:09 GMT 10
Now now Borough, don't get greedy, their website is advertising tickets to the Australian Baseball Awards that were held on the 4th May, you can't expect them to successfully market two things at once!
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Post by moose on Jun 14, 2012 19:08:55 GMT 10
Borough that's exactly the problem! It doesn't matter where the Aces remove to they will alienate some, part or all of their current supporters. Northern, western supporters will not like a move East. Eastern and central supporters will not like a move West and so on.
Its why the question of vision streaming is so important. It will enable those fans put to a disadvantage by any move by the Aces to continue to support the Aces albeit on Video streaming over the Internet.
This discussion here, was as a result of the ACES asking for comments about what we preferred with Video streaming on their Face Book site.
I agree it would be preferable that Aces Management come out and either put to Bed rumors of an impending move from the showgrounds or confirm the rumors and let their fans know exactly whats going on!
Neil W
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2012 22:04:03 GMT 10
I would rather buy a subscription to aces streamed online then I am to buy an aces membership. Alot of people I know feel the same.
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Post by stuartcapel on Jun 15, 2012 9:29:11 GMT 10
I would rather buy a subscription to aces streamed online then I am to buy an aces membership. Alot of people I know feel the same. Out of interest, why is that?
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Post by Marshy on Jun 15, 2012 9:49:58 GMT 10
I'd like to answer that Stu.
I have three young boys who are not quite old enough to sit through an entire baseball game. If I wanted to go and see one (which I haven't as yet) it would mean leaving them behind. It would also mean being away from my family for a half day/entire evening, especially when you add in travel (I live in the East). I already sacrifice a large amount of family time through my coaching commitments with my local club.
If I could watch the night games after putting the kids to bed, then chances are I would be far more inclined to do that than attend the game in person.
Therefore a subscription to a quality, live or even delayed "telecast" would be a much more attractive option for me.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2012 11:17:07 GMT 10
Little doubt that the on-line telecast will attract interest in the 'product' and familiarity of the players and that will inevitably turn into bums on seats at games.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2012 13:02:12 GMT 10
Stu, simply- It is easier for me to catch 1 hour - 2 hours online then it is to get to an actual game. I know for a fact I would get more use out of subscription then I would out of a membership. Rather the aces making $X(subscription fee) they will make about 1 tickets worth out of me for the season.
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Post by oldracer on Jun 15, 2012 16:08:37 GMT 10
and I would also, my business dictates that I would not get any value out of a membership but would purchase a subscription. I just paid $39.95 for a college world series subscription and my team could have been 2 and cued, they didn't but the money was well worth the ability to watch what I certainly wouldn't have been able to, same applies with the Aces for me anyway.
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Post by stuartcapel on Jun 15, 2012 20:20:53 GMT 10
I think what is a very quick polling of the electorate shows that there is not only a need for online streaming video of matches, but there are people who are unable to go to matches, regardless of the venue, who genuinely have an interest in the Aces and would like to show their support, just that the options they have had previously are not beneficial to their situations.
Obviously, there was no streaming video last year, so there’s little to compare with from last season’s membership options, but I think Sydney may have shown the way for the coming season, despite raising their season ticket prices a substantial amount.
The Blue Sox have a Club Membership package on offer for $55 which provides little things such as a coffee cup, members hat, mini bat and some club discounts.
Now, we see with AFL football (as an example, though the Melbourne Storm and I dare say most professional sporting clubs do likewise), that there are a host of actual membership options. From reading last season’s Ticket and Group Information document from the Aces, membership seemingly surrounded season ticket holders and only season ticket holders. Under no circumstances am I knocking the punch cards, they are a fine idea, however they should be treated as being ‘members’ rather than a holder of 10 individual GA tickets.
My understanding is that the Aces had around 300 members last season, which I can only take were the season ticket holders, who were the only ones denoted as ‘members’ in last seasons document.
For season 2012-13, I would hope that punch card holders were also treated as ‘members’, and that, like Sydney, a Club Membership be an available option for a cost at, or similar to that provided by the Blue Sox.
We have seen Marshy, whoswingsit and Oldracer all demonstrate they would watch the Aces but don’t currently have the appropriate avenue that benefits them. Should the club offer a Club Membership, or if they just want to watch it on the internet, call it an ‘Internet Membership’, then surely the Aces would have more people associated with the club in a membership capacity.
Personally, I feel that how people support the club is irrelevant, so long as they support the club, and if the club can make a quid out of it, then all the better. Wouldn’t it be a feather in the cap of the Aces if they can count up season ticket holders, general admin members, ten or five game members, club members and internet members all under the one banner and then perhaps we can show that the Aces lead the league in as far as memberships are concerned?
Now, perhaps the Club Membership is in this year’s document. Of course, we are still awaiting notification of what the 12-13 members info is, but the streaming audio provides even more opportunity to attract ‘members’, or something to add to a membership package.
In only a handful of hours, three gents (and thanks for your honest responses) have demonstrated that they just want the avenue that best helps them support the club. Surely they are not the only three in that situation. Would the club not be negligent to not find a way to come up with a win-win situation?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2012 20:45:46 GMT 10
Good post stu
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Post by dRoy on Jun 17, 2012 1:18:35 GMT 10
I am coming up to a big decision. I can't do both really. I either become a full Melbourne Aces member (and not attend many games) or I become a full melbourne heart member and attend every game (13 at AAMI park I think). Both around the same price of $200. I really want to continue being an aces member, (number #29 to be precise). But cannot justify spending the same amount of dollar on a membership I won't use. Clearly the Aces need to offer a social/not quite full membership to people who want to be members (but show their support to the club by giving them money and only turning up for a few games). If they can't get this right in season three, I would feel a little embarressed. I'm a harsh critic of the club because I want to see them succeed.
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Post by moose on Jun 17, 2012 8:52:47 GMT 10
Dane you must do what your heart tells you to do!
If you want to support Heart then do so. The facilities are far better than anywhere the Aces will play, where ever that is! You will get far more for your dollar with the soccer than the BB and it seems that they are far more supportive of their fans than the Aces are.
$200 seems a good deal for 13 games which comes is at around $15.40 and seems great value. With out any further information to the contrary, a usual condition with the Aces, I suspect that a membership ticket this season will exceed the $200 by a substantial amount where ever they play.
Good luck.
Neil W
PS. You can always stream games and go to the few games you can/want to make.
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Post by stuartcapel on Jun 17, 2012 21:27:10 GMT 10
Again, another example above of where a limited club membership would be a win-win for both the Aces and the member. More and more, the evidence is that as a membership option, this needs to happen. On a couple of positives, Niall Adler is on board with the Aces as their Communications director, and I’m sure we all look forward to the developments Niall will share with us in the future. Further, it had been mentioned as an option here several times, but it was noted that the Aces GM was in attendance at the Melbourne Ice today as they defeated the Gold Coast Blue Tongues 6-0. It should be noted the Ice are a not-for-profit club, yet run things so impeccably. Hopefully the GM has taken several ideas away from the afternoon at the Icehouse and can implement them into the presentation of the Aces in the coming season. One thing I do enjoy is their player introduction video. I spoke today to one of the girls who put it together and apparently it was quite hard to get the final shot together, but for an amateur club, it is incredibly professional. The Bandits had moving video for their introductions last season, and it would be fun to see something similar for the Aces this season One other thing the Ice will be doing this season is having their 10 year Anniversary dinner at the MCG. The Ice are doing theirs for $80.00 per head.
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Post by moose on Jun 18, 2012 7:36:37 GMT 10
... and yet Stu despite them doing a lot correct, you still remain my only source of news about them. Haven't seen anything in the newspapers about them, which goes to show how difficult it is to get media attention for minor sports.
Neil W
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Post by stuartcapel on Jun 18, 2012 10:38:56 GMT 10
No doubt it is difficult moose, however Will Brodie has a piece published in The Age every Tuesday or Wednesday, and the online article generally has highlights attached from the game should the Melbourne Ice have played at home over the weekend.
It's tough for the Ice Hockey to get something in over the winter months on a Monday, as The Age will generally devote three pages to how fantastic Lance Franklin is after receiving a downfield free kick in the goalsquare. In the summer, so long as you get past the Spring Carnival, there should be no reason why the Aces don't have a presence. I rememebr a time when the Reds played at Moorabbin they had at one stage a double page spread in review of the baseball - I vaguely remember a photo of a young Tim O'Meara in such a piece.
The hard part is getting the foot in the door, however with Niall Adler and his contacts on board, surely his Size 11's can ensure enough doors are prevented from closing on the club.
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Post by Marshy on Jun 18, 2012 11:17:53 GMT 10
I vaguely remember a photo of a young Tim O'Meara in such a piece. Were they trying to DISCOURAGE interest or what??
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2012 12:37:49 GMT 10
I vaguely remember a photo of a young Tim O'Meara in such a piece. Were they trying to DISCOURAGE interest or what?? Now we know why the ABL folded the first time around...
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Post by phantom74 on Jun 18, 2012 19:48:23 GMT 10
Stu, those were the days when the Herald Sun had half page game reports every game
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Post by moose on Jun 19, 2012 7:52:45 GMT 10
Sorry guys if I sound like I'm whingeing here. I'm really loosing patience with the Aces. I like many other SUPPORTERS would like to know the answers to a couple of questions. (1) Just where are we playing this season? (2) What is going to be the cost of a season ticket for - Aces Memberships
- Premium Memberships
- General Admission memberships/tickets.
Windsor its time to come forth and INCLUDE your clubs fans in the clubs future plans for Season 2012 - 13. LOYALTY is a two way street. People will only give back what they see being extended. Neil W
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Post by The Puma on Jun 19, 2012 7:54:15 GMT 10
Altona is 100% locked in for the next 3 years.
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alfie
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Post by alfie on Jun 19, 2012 8:56:52 GMT 10
Altona is 100% locked in for the next 3 years.[/qu ote] Not only that....have it on very good authority that there will be a significant turnover in the front office and coaching staff. Possibly several import players from interstate also. Watch this space......
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