Country Baseball

[tgonguy999]

As a proud and passionate country baseballer I wanted to start this thread to point out what i think is a problem in victorian baseball and that is the growing divide between country and city baseball, and to see what peoples views are about country baseball. In my opinion i think country baseball is falling behind its city counterpart in numberswise and also quality. If you look back in the last ten years there has been a decline that has seen clubs and associations fold and in general a decline in participation.

It seems to me that there needs to be change and a focus on improving the leagues and also working out ways of reestablishing the leagues that have folded. I dont have all the answers, in fact i really only have questions but i feel it is an important subject that needs some descussion ?

[Deleted]

Thank you for starting this thread 999.

It is a discussion that should be had, needs to be had and increasingly will be had. Issues such as this are precisely why the Forum was established in the first place.

There is no longer a clear delineation between "country" and "city" baseball like there used to be, when the VPBL and VBA had separate identities and separate seasons.

I believe that Baseball Victoria has a genuine commitment to strengthening the winter leagues and I believe there is enough evidence, already, that BV is fair dinkum about that (EG getting winter associations involved in Little League, helping winter associations with their branding and their websites where they have taken up the offer, attending regional board meetings and so on).

In distributing funds held in trust to junior projects just recently, the former VPBL seems to accept that unification is working. But, yes, winter leagues face ongoing challenges.

You may be right that there has been a "general decline" in participation and it is true that Goulburn Valley, Hamilton and Colac are among regional leagues that have folded in past decades. But we would need to quantify any such decline in the context of a whole range of circumstances.

I know that GBA senior team numbers have dropped from around ninety just eighteen years ago to 38 teams last season. Yet Ballarat, who everyone rightly reckoned was dead in the water just two years ago, shows signs of a revival. While it is an unlikely scenario, down the track it might be a matter of Geelong needing Ballarat more than Ballarat needing Geelong.

It is a cyclical process, to some degree, although we do know that the presence of decent, committed administrators - at club and association level - is of fundamental importance. Such persons may only come along once in a baseball lifetime - if at all.

An insight that really struck me recently was progress of the sport in Sunraysia, where over 600 juniors played the game last winter. I had no idea of that, and it is great news for baseball in the region.

It would be interesting to know, from insiders, what is going on in Bendigo, Latrobe Valley and the North-East, all of whom will be hosting Winter Championships and have a shot at raising the baseball profile at least for a short time.

I expect in the discussion, though, that we'll find it is not just country baseball that faces challenges. It's likely to be country sport, and even sport in general.

The trick is to respond to those challenges as we best can.

Plenty of baseball administrators visit this Forum. Here is an opportunity for them, and others, to have some real input into debating an issue that has troubled people for many years.

[wako]

Good thread.

I spoke to a junior coach last winter on the subject of participation numbers and related to him that when I was playing under 12s in the early 1990s, about 50 kids tried out for the GBA carnival side. He said that the GBA would be lucky to have 50 under 12 kids in the whole competition.

On the other hand, clubs like Alfredton and Mounties have come back and appear to be doing the right things to grow. Colac may be in A grade this year.

kc, any updates on the possible Ballarat Summer League club?

[tgonguy999]

Yeah it seems to be the same story here in the LV wako, I grew up playing juniors in the late 90s and back then our comp had roughly 25 junior sides through the age groups and when you tried out for rep sides there would be 20 kids to choose from, fast forward to 3 years ago our junior program was On the brink Of collapsing with only 8 teams and our rep sides were struggling to get anyone. Since then we have worked hard to recruit and retain players and things are picking up. I'm not sure how big a correlation this has with the decline of the old abl but for me I think that it's not a total coincidence

Part of the reason I started this thread is to find out how to use the new abl to market our game in the country, for that to happen the aces and bv will need to drive that with the help of associations volunteers and if done right it could potentially boost participation greatly.

I also have a concern about the number Of country kids picked for state sides, if I read correctly there were 3 kids based in the country picked in all the sides this year( I included Geelong in city kids). That tells me that there is a gap at the higher level that is increasing. I believe that country kids need to be able to think that making those sides is achievable or the will not have the drive to develop there game.

[lonewolf75]

Was there not in previous years a quota for the provincial side to have X number of country kids?? I doubt it could be proven but if this was the case I wonder if this has contributed to the retention rate and the increase gap in skills for the country kids these days. Would it be worth considering a quota for the younger age groups, U14 down, to ensure that some of these kids are being exposed to the elite level for their age. I dont think this would help draw kids to the game but I do think it would help with retention and give kids something to aim for??

[Deleted]

wako, last I heard was that Ballarat had pretty much committed to two senior sides for Summer League 2012/13. I hope that is the case.

[tgonguy999]

Correct lonewolf, when there was vpbl sides there were quotas for country kids, not exactly sure but I think it was 4 or 5. Your right to in saying it won't get kids into the game but it will help retention by giving them an avenue to further there game.

[aueagle30]

My understanding of the VPBL quotas was a requirement during the 90's for half the team to be country kids (this included Geelong kids)... at the time I became involved in managing Vic teams (2003-2010), the quota had dropped to 3-5, before being completely dropped in the mid-2000's.

Quotas in sport (consider racial quotas in South African sport), are purely political... these VPBL quota had no real impact in the recruitment or retention of players... the quotas were phased out because the number of country kids trying out decreased year after year, to the point where we couldn't fill the quota... at the same time, general playing numbers in provincial centres, including Geelong, also declined.

Your idea the quotas will improve retention of country kids ignores any possible benefit will come at the expense of alienating city kids that could be better skilled... kids with better skills missing opportunities to make rep teams because of political quotas are likely to leave the sport.

[aueagle30]

The concept the ABL will drive any significant recruitment in the next five years (a sentiment echoed from within the Aces administration) is empty rhetoric... perhaps if the league can last a decade and increase their profile through more consistent media coverage, it might have a greater impact on recruitment, but for now, I expect very few youths to walk through our door on the back of the ABL simply existing.

999, the answer to the problem isn't the ABL... not yet, anyway... the answer is getting committed people on the ground, in schools, recruiting and developing kids... In other words, hard work!

Successful clubs work hard and work smart... I'm sure (and KC can give us better insight) Ballarat's renaissance can be attributed to the hard work of one/two/three people.

[gj]

The quota started out as an ABF requirement for the VPBL to enter a team in the nationals in their own right, though they would never set a requirement for exactly what constituted country. The VPBL set its own method of those whose phone numbers were in the old STD zones (starting with 5 instead of 9). I believe the quota was initially 50% but dropped to 30% later (Graeme Besford could confirm this - my memory lacking). Most teams most years had in excess of 50%. a couple of teams in the last couple of VPBL years could not make quota due to not enough country kids trying out.
All of the kids must have played winter the previous year to make the team.
When BV took over, the second team became purely a development team for the blue team with no winter requirement.
Lots of discussion over time about merits of picking a weaker country kid over a stronger city kid. I believe it very rarely, if at all happened due to an excess of country kids.

[aueagle30]

Feb 29, 2012 12:36:24 GMT 10 gj said:

The quota started out as an ABF requirement for the VPBL to enter a team in the nationals in their own right, though they would never set a requirement for exactly what constituted country. The VPBL set its own method of those whose phone numbers were in the old STD zones (starting with 5 instead of 9). I believe the quota was initially 50% but dropped to 30% later (Graeme Besford could confirm this - my memory lacking). Most teams most years had in excess of 50%. a couple of teams in the last couple of VPBL years could not make quota due to not enough country kids trying out.
All of the kids must have played winter the previous year to make the team.
When BV took over, the second team became purely a development team for the blue team with no winter requirement.
Lots of discussion over time about merits of picking a weaker country kid over a stronger city kid. I believe it very rarely, if at all happened due to an excess of country kids.

gj, must have been convenient to have Geelong fall into the provincial category? Forget the 250,000 strong population, the capacity to support a strong Division One club, and resources comparable to any Melbourne suburban community, their phone numbers start with a 5...

In excess of 50%... like 2004 when the VPBL U/18's had six Geelong players... or 2005 when they picked seven Geelong players... yes, both teams had other players from regional areas, but wouldn't have reached 50% without the Geelong players.

My recollection is the quotas were dropped completely for the 2006 National Championships, a full three years before BV took over the management of these teams... I was one of the coaches involved in selecting these teams during this period and I can assure you, the final years of the VPBL didn't include a quota, or at least enforce a quota... a check of the rosters of the 2006-2008 teams confirms my belief there was no quota in place.

gj, not digging personally, just highlighting the how the quota system used previously was not as 'clean' as might be thought... rep teams should be for the best players available and quotas will not improve our overall sport.

[Deleted]

I wouldn't call it a renaissance, Nathan, but there are flickering signs of a rebirth. And, yes, it has been largely guided by the work of a handful of people.

Three years ago there were no juniors and the number of senior teams was down to five (two clubs). This winter there will be at least eight senior teams playing in the GBA (three clubs), but more importantly there are kids being drawn to the game through Come and Try sessions and after-school competitions during summer and autumn.

Viable senior clubs and the prospect of a Ballarat summer club will give those kids options for them to continue in the sport and it creates the possibility of new clubs being created by enthusiastic parents and associates.

The process was started by a small group of proactive BBA Board members taking their job seriously by getting out into the schools, using the local media to promote the game and actually doing practical things to attract kids - like hosting BV under-aged championships.

The Board has run its term and a new group (of younger people) is now in charge. Indications are that the work will continue, but its effectiveness will fundamentally depend upon the level of commitment that people are prepared to make.

We can never be complacent in this sport if we want it to get better, or even if we simply want it to survive. It is never easy, as powerhouse summer clubs like Waverley, Geelong and Essendon will attest. They did not get to where they are now through good fortune alone.

The challenge is to get people on board who are fair dinkum and who are committed to doing the hard work. Such people are not easy to find and some organisations are more blessed than others. What we do know, though, is that success tends to breed success in amateur sport. If baseball organisations - clubs and leagues - can build a culture that is based on imagination, honesty, integrity, hard work and the acceptance of responsibility, then it is likely to attract like-minded people.

All of that is probably pretty self-evident in principle. Maybe there are practical measures that BV and the existing leagues can take in aiming to strengthen the winter competitions and even establish new clubs.

For example, free in-servicing of existing (or potential) office-bearers and administrators, more actively monitoring the regional associations to ensure that they are being proactive and they are doing the hard yards. Devising strategies to ensure that all clubs have a proper handle on technology and are using their websites, social media and communications to optimum effect in seeking to attract members.

Some of these services are probably already offered. Maybe they are not being fully utilised. Maybe advice is not being sought when it should be (for whatever reason). Maybe some clubs and associations do not fully understand what is preventing them from getting better.

[gj]

Nate,
Just because Geelong is a large city with a very well run baseball program does not change the fact they are a regional city. The grey areas as I see it are Melton, Sunbury etc. Both Woolongong and Newcastle are bigger cities and they play in CNSW.
There were also a lot of kids picked from outer east Melbourne and eastern bayside who fell under the same ruling. The tyranny of distance ruled out a lot of 'outer' country kids. Parents and kids have to be really committed to come from mildura week after week.
I wasn't actively involved in the junior program so I can't be sure of the exact numbers selected from country areas, but the 18's were the only program that had trouble getting the required numbers. at no time did the VPBL officially remove the quota system even though the ABF did not enforce it.
I have always argued the the Vic teams should be selected like NSW, you play in the team where you live. Vic would never do this because it reduced their chances of winning. The CNSW kids take pride in playing for country and will do this over playing for city - I remember talking to Chris Snelling when he played for CNSW, he never considered playing for city.
As I said previously, there were a number of animated discussions at the time of what to do with a weaker country kid being selected over a stronger city kid just for quotas sake. I nerver personally saw it happen.

[Line Drive]

I have played in three Provincial baseball leagues and am currently playing in the North East. I know at my club there are some deicated individuals gettig Aussie T-Ball up and running. I am not sure of what is happening with the smattering of other clubs in the North East. I did hear that we had about 50 kids at Aussie T-Ball which for a club with little or no public profile an excellent effort. I drive 55kms to training each week in the winter and use to drive further when in Sunraysia. However, when i speak to people where i live they have no idea there is baseball in the North East.
Still we will continue to fight the good fight and try and get the word out there.

[Coalmined]

Feb 28, 2012 12:43:50 GMT 10 kc said:

wako, last I heard was that Ballarat had pretty much committed to two senior sides for Summer League 2012/13. I hope that is the case.

I am sure the baseball community would welcome the entrance of a Ballarat side in the summer comp. But logistics of it all come into play.
Can I play devils advocate?
Can you coach a junior side and make an game in Ballarat? Ballarat grows and wants to be a divvy 1 side. 6 junior teams? How do we get parents to drive to Ballarat in the morning for a junior game?
We struggle to get from blackburn/Upwey juniors to 2nds games at Werribee/Geelong. How would we go getting to Ballarat for game time?
Berwick V Ballarat, Ballarat V Berwick.

Saturday games with a sleep over? Let me book that in with the wife.
Why Ballarat and not Bendigo? As I said just playing devils advocate and am keen on the actual responses of summer leagues players that may have to make the trek to Ballarat.
What Div will they start in?
I know we had a washout earlier in the year and a couple of Preston players had said the had come from Bendigo for a washout at Werribee?

I may have missed the point of Ballarat of entering a side in the summer comp. But is it viable for the summer comp? Are the players that play for Ballarat not already playing for Geelong, Werribee, Sunshine, Essendon?
Not trying to be a wet blanket as it is the Vic summer league not a metro league.

[stockley]

Coal mined... Good points, and things to consider for the powers, but for the juniors, local teams playing in Friday night comps count too I believe.

But having said that, maybe the league will consider west league and east league to maintain better traveling...

[Deleted]

These are all legitimate concerns, Coalmined.

I am not an official nor any longer a player affiliated with the BBA or a local club, so I cannot presume to speak for anyone else, other than to say that entry of a Ballarat team to the BV summer competition has been on the agenda for at least a decade.

There is now sufficient interest that it looks like it might be a goer from as early as next summer (with two sides entered, probably in Division Two). In the end it will come down to player and administrator commitment if it is to work.

Yes, there are some logistical issues that will need to be sorted. I don’t believe that they are insurmountable and I agree that the wishes of the players are of paramount importance.

Ballarat players are involved with other summer clubs, as you mention. From their perspective, why should they not be able to train and play with a local club, with a local identity, rather than travelling (for training and game days) every week of a long summer season?

Would it not be good for development of the game at regional level (in this case in Ballarat) if young players were given the opportunity of being able to play at Summer League level - with their own local club - when they were up to the task?

Geelong has shown how successful an out-of-town club can be in developing its own identity, its own membership and its own support base – which all inevitably feed into a viable winter competition.

I take your point about Berwick to Ballarat. That is an extreme case. For plenty of clubs, travelling to games in Ballarat would be no more onerous than Geelong going to Berwick, Werribee to Waverley, Blackburn to Geelong etc.

For clubs to the west of the city, Ballarat fixtures would pose no real issue at all. In fact they would be a far more attractive proposition.

Why not Bendigo? Well, probably no reason at all if Bendigo expressed a wish to play Summer League and could guarantee a level of facilities and a quality of playing capacity.

The argument about juniors applies across the board. It is and will remain an ongoing challenge for coaches and players to be splitting their Friday nights, Saturdays and Sundays between baseball commitments across a potentially wide area.

Years ago (not that the consideration in itself makes it right), Victorian Baseball Association (as it was then), was zoned geographically. Maybe it is worth revisiting that idea and considering playing north/south and east/west groups (or something similar) so that we can accommodate new clubs coming in from Ballarat, Bendigo, maybe even Latrobe Valley.

If the Ballarat project gains momentum over the next few months, I can see that some summer clubs will oppose the idea because they may lose players. Personally, I think that is a selfish stance to take. There are clubs around that have relied on players from regional associations for far too long, although those players have in turn derived benefit.

In the end, surely what we need is more players, more clubs and more diversity for the sport to develop. And, as you say, we are playing in a Victorian Summer League – not a specifically metropolitan league.

[gj]

Wepp put KC as usual.
When I was a youngster and the VBA was still a winter comp, Bendigo Ballarat and Geelong all had strong local comps - with Ballarat probably the stronger of the 3. In my age group in Bendigo we could easily mix it wIth both. Then came summer league, a lot of the Geelong guys were close enough to play summer ball and the extra coaching and standard sent them soaring whilst we stagnated in our own little pool with melbourne seen as too far to travel for most.(a couple of the western Melbourne clubs also did very well out of Geelong) This then translated to some years later in being able to start their own summer club which led to where they are today compared to where Bendigo and Ballarat are today.
Getting any of these country centres involved at a higher level will increase their standard and the participation rates in those areas. There may be some discomfort for the city clubs having to travel, but as this is once or maybe twice a year compared to the country kids doing it every second weekend they should suck it up for the good of the game.

[dickieknee]

Ballarat to Chelsea is about 2 hours. IF the juniors play in Senior teams they will not make it back in time for there other game.

As a senior player, I would welcome a trip to Ballarat to play against them.

Time constraints are going to be the issue.

[Chilli Wil]

How about play the 16s and 18s at home on Saturday night? Only solves the problem half of the time, but it is a start.

[wako]

Another option is to start the junior game(s) in question an hour early, or the seniors an hour later.

[dickieknee]

The unwritten rule is to be at the game venue 1 hour before game start RTG.
Currently that is 8am for a 9am start. To get to a junior game for an 8am start in Chelsea/Bonbeach from Ballarat means
-Parents wake up there children at 4:30 to 5:00am
-Leave 5:00am (at the latest) for a 2 hour drive.
-Wake up kids on arrival to train and then play for 2 hours.

Say Ballarats next senior game is at Fitzroy with a 12pm RTG for a 1pm start.

-That trip (with no time for a chat or drink at the hosts team canteen) means they could be on the road another 1 hour to 1H 10M.
- This game finishes at 3pm, then they get to wind down and have a 1 hour 15 minute drive home. With a stop for food 1 hour 45 minute.

The Ballarat parents and players get home at about 5pm.

A LONG DAY.

[Deleted]

Yeah, that could hypothetically be a fair assessment dickie.

It's a situation that parents from regional centres know about very well, having had kids (and themselves) involved in BV competitions.

But let's not jump the gun here. We are talking about Ballarat initially entering senior sides (ideally two) into the summer competition and seeking to build a summer club from there.

When and if junior teams become viable for entry to BV competitions will be the time to consider the options. Saying it is all too hard is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[dickieknee]

Agreed. It is worth the go. Just showing what type of challenge has to be overcome.

[wako]

You're right, Dickie, it is a long day. But it's neither insurmountable nor a new problem. At Geelong, we have had juniors that lived in the Colac area who played seniors in the afternoon, and currently have seniors from Colac. A couple of weeks ago, our Under 18s played in Berwick, after which some of them came back to Geelong to play in the 2s. Fortunately, Berwick agreed to start at 8:00 AM. Long days are part of the deal when you live 90 minutes or more west of the "epicentre".

One possibility is that clubs might have to be less reliant on juniors playing seniors to the point where they can deal with the juniors missing the occasional game of seniors because the logistics of making it from the junior game to the senior game is too difficult.

But, as kc alluded to, the Ballarat junior situation is only hypothetical at the moment.

[bushman]

The idea of Ballarat or Bendigo teams in the Summer comp is great, but of course alot of planning will have to go into that to get players that are committed to the travel each week.
Honestly, it will be hard to get a solid group that will do that.

Speaking for myself, I have lived in Shepparton and Bendigo over the last 2 seasons and driven down to play in Melbourne. Its a long day, no doubt, especially when having to go to Geelong, Bonbeach, Upwey, etc to play. But you accept that when you decide to play.

If you were to broach the subject now with both leagues it would be ideal.
As their winter seasons ramp up it would be an opportunity to discuss with each club and guage the number of players who are interested, that way they could give VSBL an answer well before the summer season kicks off and not running around 3 weeks beforehand.

[redlight]

I've mentioned this before but I will say it again.

Why dont we look at how other states set up their summer competitions?

I played a couple of seasons over in Perth and was blown away by how they run things. It is no wonder why they are such a power house when it comes to nationals.

On Saturdays they have their 12's, 14's and 16's play (at all different times of the day) generally the 16's would be the main match at around 2pm.

Sundays are kept seperate for just the Senior teams (yes 18's are considered seniors as they should be). All teams play at the same ground against the same club.

4's and 18's would play in the morning, then the 2's and 3's would play at Midday, then the 1's would play in the afternoon (and by this stage the WHOLE club is around to watch and support the ones and thier club)

obviously some concerns of trying to replicate exactly what they do - but ive never understood why this format cant be looked at.

This takes away the fact that Jrs have to travel to and from long distances because EVERYONE is at the same club.

If you play under 16's, you have the potentional to play 3 games every weekend (being 16's, 18's then Snrs).

Who said too much baseball is a bad thing huh?

I myself use to Live in Werribee, play for Geelong jrs and then travel to the eastern suburbs for geelong srs back to Werribee. Had to do this for two grand finals in one day at one point but I was dedicated. I watched many people walk away from the sport because trying to manage it with some sort of life style could be ridiculous sometimes.

[aueagle30]

Feb 29, 2012 15:38:37 GMT 10 gj said:

Nate,
Just because Geelong is a large city with a very well run baseball program does not change the fact they are a regional city.

The statements below are taken from the most recent memo distributed by Baseball Victoria (Fri March 2, 2012)

"Re: 2013 BVSL Division 1 Regional Round"

"Baseball Victoria has engaged Sports Marketing Australia (SMA), who have an agreement with a number of regional councils to sell our events for a hosting fee..."

"As a result of attracting additional funding, Baseball Victoria will use these fees towards promotional and development activities prior to the State Winter Championships, such as working with local media, schools and club/s..."

"As such Baseball Victoria wish to encourage Division 1 clubs to play at least one home and one away (i.e. 2 games) Summer League firsts game in a regional location to assist with the promotion of baseball in the area."

"FYI, here is a list of Councils currently under agreement with SMA;

• East Gippsland (Bairnsdale
  
• Latrobe (Moe, Morwell, Traralgon, Churchill)
  
• Warrnambool
  
• Horsham
  
• Bendigo
  
• Ballarat
  
• Shepparton
  
• Wangaratta
  
• Mildura"

[/li][/ul]

"Clubs are now asked to provide feedback on the following, no later than Monday 18th March 2012;

1. A preferred location that your club would like to play (Geelong will not be considered) or not play."

As I've already said, how convenient Geelong can be regional when it suits and not when it doesn't

[aueagle30]

Feb 29, 2012 15:38:37 GMT 10 gj said:

Vic would never do this because it reduced their chances of winning.

This is an unfortunate statement... you're stating the Vic teams would have significantly reduced their chances of winning if they were prohibited from selecting regional-based kids, while at the same time pushing an agenda that quotas were necessary to ensure country kids were even selected for these teams... if the regional-based kids were so important to Vic's chances of winning, why the quotas?

Perhaps the real reason was that Baseball Victoria (or the VBA) believed that every Victorian kid had the right to represent Victoria, if good enough. Perhaps they felt creating a division based on city of orgin was more damaging for our sport than edifying. To assume the worst of others is to clearly portray the worst in yourself.

Feb 29, 2012 15:38:37 GMT 10 gj said:

As I said previously, there were a number of animated discussions at the time of what to do with a weaker country kid being selected over a stronger city kid just for quotas sake. I nerver personally saw it happen.

I coached with the Vic Under 18 team for six years (five as head coach)... I was implicitly involved in the selection of both the Vic and VPBL teams and I 100% agree, we never argued about keeping a country kid just to fill a quota... every kid that made the team deserved his selection.

Doesn't this only lend more weight to the argument against quotas? If the deserving kids make the teams, if coaches are picking the best kids because they want their team to win, don't country kids have as much chance as city kids?

Let's consider other ways... improved coaching resouces in regional areas, improved facilities, improved access to winter academies (travel allowances to reduce the burden on travelling to Melbourne, or opening these academies in regional areas)... this is how we increase the incentives for country players to improve, not through token selections.

[aueagle30]

I'm somewhat astounded at the negative talk surrounding the inclusion of a regional team into Baseball Victoria's Summer League.

Geelong has been in the league for almost 30 years... In my time as a junior player in the early-mid 90's, we had multiple players on Victorian and Australian teams at all age levels... In the past 10 years, our juniors have remained strong... over the past six years, our four senior teams have made the playoffs more than 20 times... we've included two women's teams and two master's teams... Our close relationship with our council has led to one of the best baseball facilities in Australia...

All this in spite of the travel burden that sees our juniors leaving the house before 6am every other week and our Division One players traveling between Geelong and Melbourne more than 20 times per season (that's more than 3000km every year).

As an example of what a regional club can bring to the VICTORIAN Summer League, I would have thought the idea of more regional teams would be considered great news...

But instead, we have discussions how it might be tough on Melbourne-based players to take one or two trips outside Melbourne??? That they might have to wake up before 6am for a game of baseball??? That the cost of petrol to travel the extra 500km might drive people away from our sport???

If Geelong can overcome all these problems over a 30-year period and continue to expand and succeed, surely these Melbourne-based clubs shouldn't be overly concerned with the impact???

Great for Ballarat, great for baseball... it is hard work and you have to be clever when it comes to sustaining numbers, but it is possible... if Ballarat ever need help, I'm always happy to help.