legend
Junior Member
Posts: 69
|
Post by legend on Nov 16, 2011 18:27:35 GMT 10
Last night at the MWBL AGM, a vote was taken if to extend the A grade league to 12 teams. I believe this came about as the league was approached by Forrest Hill who face relegation to B Grade....again.
It was no surprise that the motion was massively defeated and the A Grade will remain at 10 teams next year. I like many I have spoken to think that 2 extra teams may weaken the grade to an extent.
Whats peoples thoughts on this?
Very interesting statement by Forrest Hill last night that they would be able to take out the 2014 A Grade title......
Also great to see young Barry Exton be presented with MWBL life member. Well done and deserved Bazza
|
|
|
Post by farnt on Nov 16, 2011 19:04:20 GMT 10
Good result, as I believe too many vague reasons to ascertain what leads to relegation.
Yes, big call re 2014. Did FH 'acquire' Rhys as a pitcher this year to lead them and have some capacity to acquire more to keep them there?
|
|
|
Post by trober on Nov 16, 2011 19:19:56 GMT 10
Extending A grade would also drop the standard of B grade
|
|
|
Post by stockley on Nov 16, 2011 20:06:33 GMT 10
It was done a few years ago, and was widely considered a failure... would have been a disgrace if it was brought back
|
|
|
Post by Chilli Wil on Nov 16, 2011 20:21:41 GMT 10
With Knox up and FHs down, I think A and B grade are right where they are. Unless teams in A grade get substantially worse, or teams in B grade get substantially better, they will be out of place. Both comps should be very even going on past results. Should be a good winter season, but it feels about as wrong to talk about winter baseball now as it does seeing Xmas decorations up in October!
|
|
|
Post by Chilli Wil on Nov 16, 2011 20:24:58 GMT 10
PS if FHs are going to win the A grade flag in 2014 then the 2012 season should be good seasoning for a good young side.
|
|
|
Post by sanchez2 on Nov 17, 2011 11:50:47 GMT 10
Ok I don't know about the 2014 flag (I think Chinny is being very optimistic) but as a Forest Hill player and a member of an executive committee that planned and made things happen to get the boys back to A Grade, it’s a hard pill to swallow. IMO the biggest issue is being able to retain or even attract good players to a club that keeps bouncing from A to B.
Aldenhoven was a fantastic pickup (and a great guy) but he only played 7 games due to college (and enjoying being a 19yo), so our season wasn’t solely relying on him, we have some good young talent with guys like Leigh Bertrand, Tommy Maxfield, Andy Hayes (& Mitch in 09-10), Ash Daws and Ewan John also came across for 2011, these guys are the players we planned on building a strong and competitive baseball club around, we have a really good cross section of coaches in Stuart Chinn, Phil Bertrand and Al Tanner with a wealth of experience. It’s just a shame to work for the last three years only to get dropped back after finishing equal bottom on a 4-13-1 record (and defeating Heathmont in the last game).
|
|
|
Post by sanchez2 on Nov 17, 2011 11:53:03 GMT 10
Also, congrats to Barry, its always a fun day at the ballpark when you umpire! Well deserved
|
|
legend
Junior Member
Posts: 69
|
Post by legend on Nov 17, 2011 14:38:53 GMT 10
Maybe after winning the 2010 B grade flag, you still weren't ready for A grade. Another year in B grade to give yourself time to build and recruit for A grade and most importantly stay up when you went up would of been a better path. Just thinking out a loud Sanchez
|
|
|
Post by stockley on Nov 17, 2011 14:51:24 GMT 10
Ok I don't know about the 2014 flag (I think Chinny is being very optimistic) but as a Forest Hill player and a member of an executive committee that planned and made things happen to get the boys back to A Grade, it’s a hard pill to swallow. IMO the biggest issue is being able to retain or even attract good players to a club that keeps bouncing from A to B. Aldenhoven was a fantastic pickup (and a great guy) but he only played 7 games due to college (and enjoying being a 19yo), so our season wasn’t solely relying on him, we have some good young talent with guys like Leigh Bertrand, Tommy Maxfield, Andy Hayes (& Mitch in 09-10), Ash Daws and Ewan John also came across for 2011, these guys are the players we planned on building a strong and competitive baseball club around, we have a really good cross section of coaches in Stuart Chinn, Phil Bertrand and Al Tanner with a wealth of experience. It’s just a shame to work for the last three years only to get dropped back after finishing equal bottom on a 4-13-1 record (and defeating Heathmont in the last game). Hmmm... an interesting question. Who do you drop when the points are equal for the bottom two teams of A grade, but one team has a .067 better runs for/against. I think its pretty cut and dry, personally. Going back to a 12 team competition in A-Grade is simply not acceptable. It didn't work last time it was implemented, again at the push of a club who didn't want to go back to B-Grade. It wouldn't work now. There are two many issues with running 12 teams - not the least of which is weakening the competition in B-Grade significantly, when you take the two GF's out AND give no clubs back. Then you're left with at 8 team B-Grade (maybe less if any of the other teams decided to pull back). Where does it stop? Just to please one club not happy with their lot after not performing well. The integrity of the league needs to be protected above and beyond the desires of one club. As I said before, I think its a good call to not do it. Also Sanchez, you can bring up beating Heathmont in the last game, but tell me which club is better off... FH having finished bottom with an equal record to Watsonia - but FH's 2nds finished 2nd last, Watsonia's finished on top and made the GF...
|
|
|
Post by sanchez2 on Nov 17, 2011 15:08:16 GMT 10
Stockley, I totally agree with your points and I am not saying we deserve to stay up because we want to, I just think this issue is going to keep re-occurring every year with those clubs who sit on the cusp of A Grade. And to the point legend made, our goal was to get to A Grade so when the opportunity presents itself why not take it.
End of the day we finished on the bottom and yes I mentioned we beat Heathmont but only to highlight the fact that we played some competitive games of baseball (and I like reminding jockstrap), I agree the 12 team comp is messy and hard to support in a winter format, one option could be that the top two teams from B Grade play the bottom two teams from A Grade with the best two sides taking the A Grade spots.
Anyway just putting forward a FHBC side of the story.
|
|
legend
Junior Member
Posts: 69
|
Post by legend on Nov 17, 2011 15:09:35 GMT 10
Well said Stockley. You have really banged the nail on the head there.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2011 15:20:05 GMT 10
one option could be that the top two teams from B Grade play the bottom two teams from A Grade with the best two sides taking the A Grade spots. Nice try S2 but that simply wouldnt be practical (re timelines etc) nor fair for the B Grade teams who have played a full tough finals series and then have to play another 'must win' game to get promoted. Plus the A Grade teams would have been idle for about a month prior as well.
|
|
|
Post by sanchez2 on Nov 17, 2011 15:21:50 GMT 10
Just wishful thinking authentic....
|
|
max
Junior Member
Posts: 22
|
Post by max on Nov 17, 2011 15:56:06 GMT 10
Hear Hear on Barry, a much loved and respected figure. Always welcome and always entertaining both on and off the field.
How about we go to 8 Teams in A Grade that solves the tied for last place issue and Knox can stay in B Grade for another year... any support for that idea.
|
|
|
Post by farnt on Nov 17, 2011 16:37:57 GMT 10
Nice one Max!
|
|
|
Post by oldburger19 on Nov 18, 2011 12:23:44 GMT 10
12 team A grade either means a 22 game season or an uneven draw. Neither of which wil happen or is fair!
|
|
|
Post by The Jack on Nov 18, 2011 14:44:46 GMT 10
Good move to leave it as it is, the proposal did not work last time and would have weakened the A grade and B grade comps IMO. FH need to work hard again and WIN the right to request their way back into A grade. Arguably they were lucky to win the B grade final in 2010 with Westgarth losing guys to college and not backing up their dominant season and Knox coming through to make the GF and just miss out. If players are committed to the club, they will stick it out and help the club with it's goal of returning to A grade. Perhaps another year of work and they will do just this, but there will be a few clubs out to stop the party. 2014 is a good goal, but how about worrying about 2012 first. Watsonia will win more than 4 games next year, their young guys will grow again over Summer, it may not be too long before they are a finals force again....maybe 2014
|
|
|
Post by regg44 on Nov 18, 2011 15:58:21 GMT 10
Some interesting debate here.
My view is that if you have promtion / relgation if you win the pennant you get promoted (irrespective of whether you are the "best" team or not) and if finish last you get relegated..no ifs or buts. And the reason we have percentages is to separate teams on the same points, whether that be to see who finishes last or who makes the four.
The problem here is we have a comp with a "compromised" promotion / relegation. If you win the pennant in B grade you actually have to make a submission as to why you should be promoted - which is what F Hills had to do the previous year.
Also was a very strong "rumour" Watsonia would not be relegated if they finished on the bottom. So who would have been relegated then?
|
|
|
Post by regg44 on Nov 18, 2011 16:01:07 GMT 10
As to the original post on this subject F Hill DID NOT make a submission to league to make a 12 team comp - that came to clubs from League itself.
Yes they voted for it as it suited them for obvious reasons (also I think Waverley voted in favour for the same reasons) but was not F Hill's initiative to create it
|
|
legend
Junior Member
Posts: 69
|
Post by legend on Nov 18, 2011 17:01:29 GMT 10
WATSONIA DID NOT FINISH BOTTOM they finished above you by percentage.
You will find FH approached the league and told them they would be tabling the structure at the AGM. The league than kindly agreed to table it on the clubs behalf
|
|
legend
Junior Member
Posts: 69
|
Post by legend on Nov 18, 2011 18:03:21 GMT 10
Just some points on this - Andy Wawra complained at the AGM about losing players to the academy.....were you the only club effected by this? I dont think so Did you work hard enough after winning B Grade to stay in A grade and take the right steps? I dont think offering money, free fees and uniforms (FACT) isnt working hard [quote author= we have a really good cross section of coaches in Stuart Chinn, Phil Bertrand and Al Tanner with a wealth of experience.). [/quote] who says? Im sorry, in my opinion i disagree with you. Are they the best available guys around......a few knock backs for summer jobs but they did win 4.5 games over winter. Go find a mirror and have a really good look and see what you really see... you only have to look at the winter threads.....everyone else saw it coming. Im out of here, im going to go play with my Yo-Yo, i love watching it go up and down, again and again
|
|
|
Post by sanchez2 on Nov 18, 2011 20:50:29 GMT 10
Wow great form legend, you are a muppet!
I stand 100% behind the FHBC coaching staff, sorry we couldn't get Bobby Cox to come down to Billabong park, perhaps Terry Francona wants to coach us now. Did myself or anyone say they are "The best available guys around", no but they have done a really great job with what they had!
Quote: "I dont think offering money, free fees and uniforms (FACT) isnt working hard"
We handed out huge bonuses to everyone, fancy uniforms and everything, we flashed cash around all over the place, spent millions in fact, but we didn't even get out of our chair we just checked who was on the free agent pool and offered them money! (FACT or FICTION you work it out legend)...
The truth is we did a ton of leg work raising sponsorship dollars, increasing membership, we had a strong focus on re-branding the club and its image (hence the fancy uniforms), we went from having a single coach to a club coach, manager and pitching coach. Did you know our membership grew by almost 50% in the space of a few short seasons, as well as building our junior stock back up.
All this aside, my post was not to say, oh poor FHBC we got a new uniform so we should be in A Grade! I was trying to show that we had taken a lot of steps to make sure we didn't fall back into the "Yo-Yo" between A & B grade. We finished bottom, period. I am not dissapointed in the league or any other club i was just pointing out why we are fighting so hard for any chance to stay in A Grade.
Forgive me for being so passionate about my club (FACT)!
|
|
legend
Junior Member
Posts: 69
|
Post by legend on Nov 18, 2011 23:30:31 GMT 10
Wow great form legend, you are a muppet! An A GRADE muppet to be exact.
|
|
|
Post by sanchez2 on Nov 19, 2011 8:37:06 GMT 10
|
|
|
Post by kb19 on Nov 19, 2011 9:13:28 GMT 10
You are a GOOSE legend. You just keep having a crack & hide behind your alias.
|
|
legend
Junior Member
Posts: 69
|
Post by legend on Nov 19, 2011 19:15:01 GMT 10
Thanks for the special comments kb19, any thoughts on the decision to stay at 10 teams? Am I the only one hiding behind an alias on this thread.......mirror.
No need for name calling guys! I'm just stating facts in what I know on this subject.
Another fact...are you aware that 2 of your 2011 trophy winners have actually approached an A GRADE club enquiring about getting a game there next year.......no I didn't think so. For the record, they were told that they were not wanted...FACT
Dont Forget, It's the goose that lays the golden egg boys
|
|
|
Post by kb19 on Nov 19, 2011 21:17:46 GMT 10
Hi Legend, as many people know my name is Ken O'Malley.
You have now had 8 posts, with not 1 of them being positive.
I don't know how you can be an A grade muppet, when I didn't see any women playing A grade.
We only had 2 trophy winners in 2011 in the firsts; FACT.
Neither of them would have approached other clubs, name them if you can.
As for the staying at 10 teams, I would have liked to stay up, but we have to take our medecine. We let some opportunities slip & copped some canings which affected out percentage; ergo back to B grade. We are allowed to be disappointed by this, without having our noses rubbed in it by morons such as yourself. The idea for a 12 team competition did not originate from our club, try getting your FACTS straight.
|
|
|
Post by sanchez2 on Nov 20, 2011 11:08:13 GMT 10
FACT – noun - something that actually exists; reality; a verifiable truth
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2011 11:24:03 GMT 10
I agree KB19 & S2 etc, it is always tough for proud clubs to have to go back and do it all again and the last thing they need is to have their noses rubbed in it.
Good luck next season, no doubt the rest of us clubs in B Grade know we are up for the challenge of keeping you honest and making you earn promotion again (see Knox last season), which is what makes the whole A Grade/B Grade thing work in my view i.e. healthy competition with an aim and focus that brings out the best in all ideally.
|
|