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Post by flip on Jul 3, 2008 14:14:56 GMT 10
Now that the elections are over for BV and VPBL (although there is still question marks on that result), lets get on with unification her in Victoria.
I find it amusing that this sport is so far behind the times with regards to having multiple organisations run the same sport in the same state! I certainly am not aware of another sport administered in this way.
Let wake up for the good of the sport!
Would love to hear so of the key players on the topic discuss it live on air!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2008 21:26:57 GMT 10
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "question marks" over the VPBL result, flip. Maybe you could expand on that.
I'm with you. The unification issue needs to be aired fully, openly and honestly, in the best interests of the sport. Plenty of Victorian baseball persons - and observers - are fed up that the sport is being held back by self-interest, duplication of effort and wastage of limited resources.
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Post by flip on Jul 4, 2008 14:08:15 GMT 10
Not sure that expanding further on my point of the VPBL election will assist. I am sure there is many people out there that would question the result, and the process. But it will not change and we need to look forward.
As people within the sport, we need to ensure that the elected people now represent us as members/players/officals to achieve to results on the topic that is in our best interests.
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fetom
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Post by fetom on Jul 4, 2008 15:58:59 GMT 10
flip, you opened a door with your comment on the results so I think you could expand on your opinion, or why else comment on the "results" in the first place?
I agree on getting on with unification. It is the only way our sport can move ahead.
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Post by gj on Jul 11, 2008 7:07:08 GMT 10
Flip may not want to expand on his comment, but as a long time Provincial person I take exception to it. The process for the election of President was as per the constitution, and the same for any other casual vacancy, all member associations had a vote as well as current board members and life members. As for the result, is there an insuation the returning officer cheated - I think not. Maybe its best that such insinuations are left unsaid in the first place. I would be more worried why a prominent VBA executive member was ringing Provincial people eliciting support for one of the candidates. A more cynical person may conclude there was some attempt to get a more VBA friendly president into office, particularly with unification coming towards us. As for unification, it is happening this year, but the format has to be determined. All previous attempts at dialogue have failed due to the VPBL being left out of controlling its own finances in BV scenarios. Unification will do nothing for our country leagues or players other than increase fees and decrease services. Ask Country New South Wales people their experiences recently. I could go on, but as I have a VPBL bias I might just finish now.
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Post by mastersballer on Jul 11, 2008 22:38:17 GMT 10
Minutes from the BV Presidents and Secretaries Meeting held Mon 7th of July.
Sandringham raised the question in regards to the Independent Board.
Peter Dihm reiterated that he was committed to have the Independent Board in place by the 30th of September.
He also reiterated that the clubs had previously approved the implementation of the Independent Board.
He advised that they are currently drafting a constitution, and advised that the current VBA clubs will be the initial clubs of Baseball Victoria, and invitations will be sent to winter associations to join Baseball Victoria.
Peter also advised that the VBA constitution will only remain for financial reasons such as bingo.
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Post by gmbc19 on Aug 4, 2008 10:44:36 GMT 10
I am sure that all the correct procedures for the election where followed and claiming that there was cheating going on is a pretty big claim and you should be careful about making claims like that.
Each and every club had a vote and they it was up to them who they voted for. Candidates contacting clubs is a great way to let the clubs know that they will have the support of that candidate, and if one candidate choses to speak to clubs and the others dont then too bad.
If I was on the board of a club and there was a candidate who did not speak to me then what would make me vote for them.
What could be fairer than that.
I still don’t understand your claims that there was cheating.
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Post by gj on Aug 4, 2008 12:09:45 GMT 10
GMBC19, Is your post in reply to mine?
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Post by GMBC19 on Aug 4, 2008 13:12:22 GMT 10
It was a general comment regards the first post. A pretty big claim I think. I agree with your comments and was just making some of my own comments.
It seems that this forum is getting a little out of control with some of the claims people are making.
We have an election process and a board representing the clubs and I am a little tired of people complaining about it but not doing anything about it.
If people don’t like it then either put yourself out there or get your club rep to do so for you. Thats what they are there for.
The board and the executive act on what’s best for the majority of clubs, not for individuals.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2008 13:43:57 GMT 10
The original post seemed to me to be referring to the VPBL election process, not the VBA elections. In re-reading Reply 4, gj seems to have also had the same impression. Hence his response as one with a VPBL "bias".
Regardless of any confusion here, GMBC19, you make a fair point about clubs and individuals complaining without doing anything positive to rectify what they believe to be wrong.
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Post by gj on Aug 4, 2008 14:02:02 GMT 10
kc is correct. My comments were about the VPBL election, I was a bit (a lot) peeved about ill informed comments being made questioning the integrity of the election. I agree totally with both previous emails regarding complaints by fence sitters - if people don't want to get involved, then leave the ones who do alone.
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Post by homerun on Aug 18, 2008 11:18:57 GMT 10
In response to gj and others what has the NSWC experience to do with the unification here in Vic. Also the old chestnut about costs rising and the country being neglected are the typical prov response. The simple fact is that Baseball in the country areas is dying. Simple fact! The only and I repeat the only money spent on development in the country comes from Baseball Victoria which in turn is directly out of the pockets of the Summer Clubs (players). So lets get real and have the process recitified. If the only sticking point - from the provincial point of view is controling their own accounts then we will never get unification. The only way it can work is for one body (independent board) to oversee the goverance of Baseball in this state so that everyone is on the same page. As others here have rightly said we all need to get on the same page.
As for the increasing of costs the cost of playing in a competition under a unified process will still be determine by the governing association whether that be the VBA for the summer competition or the Bendigo League, Geelong League VWBL etc. Each of these associations will continue to operate and administer their own competitions.
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Post by gj on Aug 18, 2008 16:21:42 GMT 10
homerun, firstly, the bit I agree with. Baseball in the country is dying. No argument from me on that. As for development funding, the VPBL contributes about $8000 per year to the VBA to be used only for development. The VBA uses VPBL player numbers in its applications for government funding for development (the amount received is unknown because it is kept a secret) As the VPBL has more registered players then the VBA , there should be another chunk of money for use in the country. And what development do we get for that, Regional Development Officers. If they are anyones idea of development we should all get a new sport. The one in I disagreeociation is useless, and not forgetting a lot of his income is through user pays. Your summer money is being used to pay for the office and is staff, not provide anything for the country. All the VBA model of unification will provide is higher costs to the country, and how is that going to save the game there. You need look no further than the Goulburn Valley league a couple of years ago when they opted out of the VPBL. Under the VPBL they paid the ABF rego & insurance plus an amount of approx.$13 per senior player which went towards admin, running championships and subsidys for rep teams. Under the VBA, they paid an extra $5 each in total, and lost the right to play in championships and represent the VPBL in nationals. Unless the right model for unification is chosen, the country will have no say in what it pays and what services it receives. Baseball will be the loser.
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Post by Amazed on Aug 18, 2008 17:52:04 GMT 10
gj Get the chip off your shoulder! The Us and Them mentality is what is holding baseball back in this state. Surely we are ALL baseball people so why the us and them? Unification is an ABF directive not a VBA idea so the right model is set by the ABF. An independent board is required by them not a VBA biased board. With the number of good baseball people involved in both seasons why wouldn't they look after both evenly? Case in point- Say John King was on the new Independent Board, I for one would be happy for him to run BV with an even hand . He is heavily involved in Summer and Winter and wouldn't favour one over the other because he would be there for the good of ALL baseball. You could easily fill an 8 to 10 person board with like minded people . You are jumping at shadows. Lets just get unified!!!!
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Post by flip on Aug 18, 2008 22:51:21 GMT 10
Somthing else that people forget with all this, there is not another sport in Australia that operates in such a way ( two organisations/one sport). Some people seem to be hung up on the issue of $, but surely that is not what we should be worried about..........it is the sport that is suffering here. No sense in worrying about a few $ here and there if there is not players to pay the money. Have freeze on certain fees for the first few years if it is such an issue.
If we are seen to be disjointed from the public and governments view it has to go against us with regards to grant, membership etc.
As for development - at this point in time i dont think anyone is doing this particulaly well so maybe a unified approach can be worked on more effeciently. Part time development officers can only do so much........at the end of the day the clubs have to be there to be able to catch these players and work to keep them in the sport...........if they are not trained up (all part of development of the sport), we will not keep the kids anyway.
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Post by gj on Aug 19, 2008 11:00:17 GMT 10
flips post is spot on in every point. My previous post was mainly in response to the comment that all development money in the country comes from summer clubs, which is just rubbish. Unification is going to happen under the ABF model. The independence of the board will be crucial as to how it works. If the sport trys to bleed clubs and players of more money, then. as flip rightly points out, there will no players left to pay anything.
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Post by homerun on Aug 19, 2008 12:35:56 GMT 10
Well now we are getting some sense onto this discussion. The $7,000 the VPBL pays to Baseball Victoria is a pittenance in the overall scheme of things. Baseball Victoria's income is around the $1,000,000 mark last year. It was Baseball Victoria who tried to introduce and develop the Regional Development Officers. There has been some success, but in hind sight it has not worked as well as everyone would have liked. the comments about the Clubs is spot on. It is they who need to undertake the development process and use whatever support they can get. In relation to the comment about the "secret" Government funding someone has been pulling your chain. Every cent Baseball Victoria receives from any source is shown in the accounts which are published and distributed to the member Clubs every month. There is nothing hidden. these accounts are properly audited and also submitted to the State Government as well as any other funding authority (i.e. Vic Health) annually. All Government monies recieved are fully audited to ensure that they have been spent in accordance with the requirements of the funding.
Either fortunately or unfortunately Baseball Victoria is cateragorized as a tier one sport for funding which means that it can ony get funding for specific projects. It does not get any general funding from the Government as lower tiered sports do.
By the way when was the last time anyone saw the"properly" audited accounts of the Provincials?
The only way effective uification will be achieved is by everyone being on the same page and that there is only one Controlling Body.
By the way you talk about the independent Board how many people know that the current President of Baseball Victoria is actually a Provincial Member and has no affilication with any summer Club at all.
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Post by gj on Aug 19, 2008 14:47:54 GMT 10
homerun, I see you are now conceding your original comment about country development funding was wrong. You are right though about the money the VBA receives is accounted for, what they don't tell anyone is how this government funding is spent. How much of that million is spent on development in the country? As for the VPBL accounts, an audited statement is given to asscoiations every year.
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Post by homerun on Aug 19, 2008 17:53:13 GMT 10
Obvisously you are unable to read a set of accounts. Get hold of the BV accounts and you will see exactly where all of the money is spent. There are no secret funds. Grow up and get real. It is this sort of garbage that is causing all of the problem. You say the VPBL issue audited accounts each year. Not this year they have not. So what is their problem. The only issued a set of accounts which were unaudited. None of their members have seen any audited accounts to date. In relation to country development funding at least BV had a go at doing something. Sure it has not been as successful as everyone would have liked but at least they had a go. The Development department will provide their services to any member or affiliate without question. According to reports to P&S meetings they are revisitng the structure and trying to find ways to improve. Again they have recognized the problem and are doing something about it. An other example is that it was raised to a P & S meeting that Pakenham is in trouble. I understand that BV were in immediate contact and have all ready visited with them and offered to assist. I don't think that they are a direct member of BV but affiliated through Dandenong to the VPBL to BV. Dandenong and the VPBL don't even want to know about them and are prepared to let them die. And you want to can BV.
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awb
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Post by awb on Aug 31, 2008 19:23:12 GMT 10
I find it quite bemusing that the Baseball Victoria executive can blame people for making incorrect claims about the new structure and its effects, without having properly informed all clubs about the proposed structure in the first place.
Why can't a simple organisational chart be shown to all clubs (summer & winter) highlighting the new board structure? To date, i have still not recieved such notice and should have.
Simply bandying around the word 'unification' and saying trust us is not good enough. Document the proposed changes and circulate these to clubs for comment. This is due process for an elected board.
Personally, i am for unification. BUT...the lack of detail provided by Baseball Victoria is not acceptable. If October is the date that BV are targetting, then there is a lot of work to go on in the mean time!
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puma
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Post by puma on Aug 31, 2008 21:41:33 GMT 10
Well your last paragraph is close to home, Homerun. And yes, Pakky are having a hardtime, and yes the only offer of help has been from VBA... pretty funny considering we're a winter club, playing in the DBA under VPBL. I have nothing nice to say about either of them, all they seem to care about is getting their share of our clubs money. Summer Div 4 East looks good except for the whole Sunday thing!
My only concern with unification, is that the same old people will be running the VPBL competitions, so nothing will change and the game will continue to die in the country/regional areas.
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Post by southside on Sept 1, 2008 9:39:06 GMT 10
It's a pretty common misconception that baseball is only dying in the country, its a sport with a relatively small (yet devout) following which is thinning year on year. Gone are the days where every div1 club had 6 teams, some of the "premium" clubs now work hard to scrape together 4 teams each year. As with most drivers in our society and economy, what is happenning in the metro areas is amplified in the rural. Baseball numbers have been on a decline since the 90's (on average) in metro... this has been amplified in the rural areas. To argue this is denial.
The leagues and teams are run by passionate volunteers, all of whom naturally want the best for their club. We need to unify, but the new operating model needs to be planned and executed with the utmost of both transparency and integrity.
Our sport needs to evolve, we can't keep the structure and program the same each year and expect things to get better.
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Post by flip on Sept 1, 2008 21:08:33 GMT 10
I agree, bring on unification, but lets make sure we do it right. This is not something that is going to happen overnight (as history tells us). But even with the first steps with this new board in October (coming fast). We cant stop there with what we have heard is going to happen.
I have said it before and i will say it again, no other sports run this way....maybe we need to look at other sports models, and learn some lessons.
I am not sure that unification is going to have a lot of bearing on development initially, we as clubs and associations need to help oursleves us much as we shoul dbe able to rely on out state bodies to provide assistance. I hear many clubs having a whinge, but i ask the question are they getting off their butts to help themselves..........yes it take people and time and those have to be volunteers but there is no other way.
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