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Post by dc on Aug 26, 2008 10:55:25 GMT 10
Does anyone else think these are boarding on a total waste of time? I mean really. We're not exactly a pro-league and yet clubs go around saying "they intend to interview a player with the view to obtaining his services." Please.
Let's be honest. Most guys transfer between clubs because they WANT to leave. This is a free country and an amateur sport so why is there an difficult process in place?
1) The only reason a guy shouldn't get cleared is because he owes money in fees.
2) Clearances should be there to prevent clubs offering money to juniors
But otherwise why do we have an association and a board that is conservative towards letting people go to other clubs (ie. "Required Player")? People should be able to play where they want to play and do whatever the hell they want to do. You'll get less guys giving up baseball just to wait the four years to avoid going through a messy clearance process and a formal hearing infront of five fat blokes that are only really interested in protecting their own clubs (ie BV pennant committee).
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Post by Chardy on Aug 26, 2008 12:28:05 GMT 10
personally I think its a joke and I would hate to be in a position of wanting to leave a club and they tell you no, you can't leave because you are a 'required player' - what does that even mean?
I would like to see someone take their club to a REAL legal tribunal and have the committee of a club explain to them why they won't let a person leave their AMETUER sporting club to play elsewhere.
Could you imagine if you wanted to leave a job to go to a better one and the board members got together and said "no, sorry, you are a required employee".
If someone doesnt want to play for your club then why make them stay?
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Post by snacks on Aug 26, 2008 12:38:33 GMT 10
Couldn't agree with you more chins.
However, what you are touching on is clearances not letters of intent.
Letters of intent is a waste of time, people talk 24/7 regardless of whether one has been submitted.
Clearances on the other hand, what is your view for clubs that have dropped a division. I believe this is the only situation where a clearance should be declined for any reason other than their financial status with a club. Having said that, if a club declines one of these clearances for 'Required Player' purposes, it should be able to be appealled unlike the current ruling with the VBA.
Thoughts?
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Post by p26 on Aug 26, 2008 12:59:11 GMT 10
I actually like the letter of intent process as it allows a club to counter an approach by another club prior to it reaching clearance request stage. If the process worked the way it should then it could prevent some clearances from being knocked back as the club and player should be able to discuss the matter prior to the clearance being entered.
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Post by skinny on Aug 26, 2008 13:29:39 GMT 10
I have to agree but also disagree.....What about the situation where you have Div 3 clubs who are trying to rebuild to take that next step...and along comes a Div 1 club trying to aquire the services of 1,2 or maybe even 3 of your players.. I can understand the objective if you were going from one Div 1 club to another, or dropping down a div but to blantantley go and poach players from div 3 clubs is a little unjust.... that is just my opinion. and as most of you are aware, I have been round long enough to see it happen... I agree with what you are saying Chin, but there needs to be some sort of standard set..As for letters of intent, they are a waste of time and paper...I know of at least 4 players this year who have been spoken to by clubs and no letters were recieved to gain "permission" to talk to these players....
Just an opinion
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d24
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Post by d24 on Aug 26, 2008 16:16:15 GMT 10
I have to agree but also disagree.....What about the situation where you have Div 3 clubs who are trying to rebuild to take that next step...and along comes a Div 1 club trying to aquire the services of 1,2 or maybe even 3 of your players.. I can understand the objective if you were going from one Div 1 club to another, or dropping down a div but to blantantley go and poach players from div 3 clubs is a little unjust.... that is just my opinion. and as most of you are aware, I have been round long enough to see it happen... I agree with what you are saying Chin, but there needs to be some sort of standard set..As for letters of intent, they are a waste of time and paper...I know of at least 4 players this year who have been spoken to by clubs and no letters were recieved to gain "permission" to talk to these players.... Just an opinion How many guys you tried to get for this season Skinny without letters of intent. I hear Malvern puts on a full time secretary this time of year to deal with all the correspondence. |
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Post by skinny on Aug 26, 2008 16:32:23 GMT 10
Hey D, Not to get into a slanging match but yes i have spoken to 1 player this year in regards to playing at Willy..........He is a good friend and it came in passing over a couple of beers... He was/is a Divy 1 player and he told me he wanted to stay playing div 1.......I am guilty...As someone else said on here, it happens all the time and i think it happens just to get a feel of what the player is thinking of doing.. no use putting a letter in if he doesnt want to play.. I have a gripe at the other part of my statement thats all....I think i might know you d24... have we played together b4?  |
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Post by dc on Aug 26, 2008 16:38:53 GMT 10
That's what I'm talking about skinny. You have a beer with a mate and say "hey come play" and what? That's illegal? Or do you say... "hold on, we can't talk about that because I've got to put a letter in."
Lets get serious people. No wonder so many people don't want to stay in the sport long when once you sign a rego there are all sorts of bi-laws, committees and tribunals to prevent you moving. I even heard a club a couple of years ago saying they wouldn't clear someone unless they got something back!!!!
Let's say a new kid joins a club, he has a hell of an arm and is a natural athlete but really doesn't like the coach. So he asks to go to the club up the road but the club he has signed a rego form with says "no way..they can't have him" and knocks it back. If the club has dropped down he can't leave and if not he has to go through a psuedo-legal process to get out of there. What will he do? Quit. I mean really.
Open it up and the only reason for knocking back a clearance should be financial I say......
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d24
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Post by d24 on Aug 26, 2008 19:43:59 GMT 10
Hey D, Not to get into a slanging match but yes i have spoken to 1 player this year in regards to playing at Willy..........He is a good friend and it came in passing over a couple of beers... He was/is a Divy 1 player and he told me he wanted to stay playing div 1.......I am guilty...As someone else said on here, it happens all the time and i think it happens just to get a feel of what the player is thinking of doing.. no use putting a letter in if he doesnt want to play.. I have a gripe at the other part of my statement thats all....I think i might know you d24... have we played together b4? Many years ago down at the patch Skinny. Still watch the game from afar alot. Saw you at the game on the weekend and you blew me off. Whats up with that  |
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Post by dandyboy on Aug 26, 2008 20:02:14 GMT 10
agree with panther, i believe the process is there for a reason. But i wonder who blackburn had to sent their letter of intent to to interview paul rutgers last week, mulgrave or bonbeach. theres an interesting conundrum.  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2008 20:24:47 GMT 10
The "Letter of Intent" protocol has been around for quite a long time. I seem to recall, in the early days, that it was more about the "courtesy" of letting a club know that you would be speaking to one (or more) of their players. I think, as a courtesy, the process should be followed, even if only so that clubs can plan for their season knowing that they may or may not have particular players. They, then, are in a position where they can chase other players to help them remain competitive. So it's more about respecting the viability of other clubs and avoiding a situation where you might have 20 blokes from a senior roster of 60 all of a sudden lodging clearance applications "out of the blue".
However, as skinny says, people will always be approaching players, in some form or another. Nothing we can or should do about that.
In terms of actually being cleared, dc, chins and snacks are spot on. It's an amateur sport. We want to keep people in the sport. If they want to play with another club, amateur baseball - or any other sport - cannot legally or morally stop players from going elsewhere. On the other hand, as skinny says, there should be some sort of obligation to help protect the "developing" clubs - otherwise they are not going anywhere. And that hurts us all.
It's not an easy one. And it can create conundrums such as dandyboy refers to.
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Post by skinny on Aug 26, 2008 20:27:12 GMT 10
my bad D, wasnt a deliberate thing.....had to make sure my girls weren't causing trouble....... as it was, youngest got half bitten by 1 of the dogs down there........
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d24
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Post by d24 on Aug 26, 2008 21:16:28 GMT 10
my bad D, wasnt a deliberate thing.....had to make sure my girls weren't causing trouble....... as it was, youngest got half bitten by 1 of the dogs down there........ its suppose to be a dog on leash park down there. My guess there were to many on the supporters to put on the dogs!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Post by skinny on Aug 26, 2008 21:21:09 GMT 10
they were on a leash, but Emily went to pick up a football and 1 of the dogs took a snap at her....tears everywhere
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d24
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Post by d24 on Aug 26, 2008 21:22:36 GMT 10
they were on a leash, but Emily went to pick up a football and 1 of the dogs took a snap at her....tears everywhere Thats not good Skin, everything alright with her? |
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d24
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Post by d24 on Aug 26, 2008 21:25:42 GMT 10
Skin, Just trying to remember if I palyed with you before, it could have been at Frankston or mabe Moorabbin, maybe Williamstown or Port melbourne, Bonbeach comes to mind, I can't remember.
Don't worry mate, I have been around to, just taking the piss ok :-)
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Post by lowdown on Aug 27, 2008 0:28:13 GMT 10
Dont think he's been cleared to bonbeach yet. Committee meeting tomorrow night to confirm. That is very interesting dandyboy, as we heard all the reports about paul being signie sealed and delivered at bonbeach yet we had received no communication from anyone.
This subject affects lower clubs rather than the elite div 1 teams. I'm pretty sure, however that if mulgrave approached Daniel berg about acquiring his services for the year, and didn't send a letter of intent, Waverley would knockback the clearence in a second and take it up with the league. Guarranteed! It is a fallback that is a required, although it is a little anal in terms of paperwork, they are there for a reason.
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Post by dc on Aug 27, 2008 7:48:10 GMT 10
Required why though? If Daniel Berg is paid up at Waverley why should there be a process there to stop him going to play for the club his brother coaches? Why should he HAVE to have a formal meeting with the club about it and why can they say no and take it to appeal? If he doesn't owe the club any money, he should be able to leave..... we're not exactly pro's and guys don't sign contracts.....
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Post by southside on Aug 27, 2008 9:59:36 GMT 10
South Australia have a different scheme. Each player has a price on his head calculated from his experience and talent, level at a-grade etc. If another club wants to recruit him, they have to buy him from that club. Not bad, but an expensive past-time for some clubs.
Other than that, clubs spend a lot of time providing specialist training to players - an investment in their clubs future, only to have that player up and off when they get a bit older. Eg. Would Berg be the player he is today if Waverley didn't invest the effort when he was young? The system works pretty well now. Letters of intent (VBA rule) only need to be in 1hr before the clearance is handed in. Clubs usually give 1-2 weeks notice on good will.
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Post by johne on Aug 27, 2008 11:13:32 GMT 10
South Australia have a different scheme. Each player has a price on his head calculated from his experience and talent, level at a-grade etc. If another club wants to recruit him, they have to buy him from that club. Not bad, but an expensive past-time for some clubs. Other than that, clubs spend a lot of time providing specialist training to players - an investment in their clubs future, only to have that player up and off when they get a bit older. Eg. Would Berg be the player he is today if Waverley didn't invest the effort when he was young? The system works pretty well now. Letters of intent (VBA rule) only need to be in 1hr before the clearance is handed in. Clubs usually give 1-2 weeks notice on good will. Ive heard that in some of the indy pro leagues in the states players are swapped for balls, bats and other equipment. I can't remember who but I think a fellow Victorian was once traded for 30 balls in some indy league. Maybe each club could put a price on their players head, like a slab of JB cans or 3 dozen frozen hot dogs  |
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Post by lucadello on Aug 27, 2008 20:37:01 GMT 10
we offered half a dozen used machine balls for chinmusic....they wouldn't deal with us.....said we were crazy.......no one in their right mind would offer that much.
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Post by Chardy on Aug 27, 2008 23:20:58 GMT 10
last I heard, I was being dealt for a couple of broken batting tee's??
Guess i'll just stay at Blacky for another 7 or 8 wins and another title....
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Post by shoeless on Aug 28, 2008 13:18:45 GMT 10
i think the payment thing is a good idea. the slabs work for me too johne. i'll give the bombers a couple of slabs for the two mcintyre's. i'll throw in a hot dog and coke for you to give to mitch for you too johne.
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Post by johne on Aug 28, 2008 13:34:39 GMT 10
i think the payment thing is a good idea. the slabs work for me too johne. i'll give the bombers a couple of slabs for the two mcintyre's. i'll throw in a hot dog and coke for you to give to mitch for you too johne. change the coke to fanta and Mitch will take the deal |
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Post by shoeless on Aug 28, 2008 14:12:48 GMT 10
done deal
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Post by southside on Aug 28, 2008 15:56:29 GMT 10
Apparently Doncaster have struck an ongoing deal with their players... something deep fried.
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