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Post by Goblin on Jan 8, 2016 15:04:37 GMT 10
Its time for the season to restart now that everyone has polished their xmas pud.
A couple of strange anomalies to start things off
Today Doncaster has posted a notification on their facebook page.
It is as follows :-
"URGENT SCHEDULE CHANGES: Baseball Victoria (BV) has directed that the Men's Firsts fixture be re-scheduled from this Sunday 10 January to Thursday 11 February on request from Waverley Baseball Club. This change was made without consultation with Doncaster Baseball Club and was presented as a fait accompli three days prior to the scheduled game.
As part of a subsequent minor compromise BV & Waverley have agreed to move our Wednesday 13 January fixture forward to Tuesday 12 January at Waverley. Our Men's Seconds will still proceed on Sunday 10 January at 1pm at Waverley.
Needless to say we are very concerned with the lack of process and the fact that there was no consultation with us in relation to this change. We are questioning if it was in the spirit of the relevant guidelines and hence we will be seeking further clarity from BV as this potentially sets a dangerous precedent for future fixturing."
Questions need to be answered:
So this means that they are forcing a 9inns game to be played as a midweek 2 hour fixture??
PLUS
Looking at the upcoming fixtures. Round 20 (Jan 20th) shows a game between Chelt and Wav BUT it is listed that the game HAS ALREADY BEEN PLAYED on Dec 17 prior to Xmas. It lists it as a 3 - 3 result.
What is going on at Waverley ?
Anybody have an update on what is going on here.
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Post by perfeckt on Jan 9, 2016 13:25:46 GMT 10
It must be gremlins goblin. That just doesn't sound right. No consult? No agreement?
If true, amateur baseball in Vic' is in major league trouble.
Hopefully it's only a glitch.
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Post by fuzzy on Jan 9, 2016 18:26:31 GMT 10
With the amount of rain we have had since Boxing Day I doubt that Dandenong Creek has burst it's banks and an unplayable field is not rescheduled anyway. Why is this game rescheduled ? I would fervently hope it has nothing to do with the number of Waverley juniors playing in the U16/18 Championships (in itself a good achievement by the club) so please BV tell us WTF is going on.
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Post by larry42 on Jan 9, 2016 20:16:19 GMT 10
Fuzzy, don't hold your breathe on any sort of explanation from BV on anything regarding what happens with the summer league.
I know that WBC approached BV weeks ago about the first 3 D1 games after Xmas. The fact that it was decided on mid week was interesting timing.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2016 20:33:02 GMT 10
Although under no illusions about the magnitude of the playing task as a new entry to Division Two (and to Summer League generally), Ballarat Brewers rode a commanding complete-game outing by Seth Haehl to extend their unbeaten run with a 4-1 result over Bonbeach. www.ballaratcitybaseball.com.au/ |
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Post by lovethegame on Jan 9, 2016 21:06:04 GMT 10
Nail square on the head Fuzzy. Ditto with game v Sunshine next week, who lose a home game as a result. WTF indeed!
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Post by doubleplay on Jan 10, 2016 7:11:00 GMT 10
It is just the case of those who have and those who don't. Just another case of why there must be a complete overhaul of baseball in victoria and get good baseball people in positions of responsibility instead of the good meaning people we have at the moment. Either, that or actually use the two committees they have and actually empower them to make a decision. Good luck with that one.
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Post by Goblin on Jan 10, 2016 11:16:22 GMT 10
I note that following outrage about the decision BV has posted the following on their website. baseballvictoria.com.au/News-Events/re-scheduled-gamesThey also conveniently do not mention the Rd 20 midweek game (20th of Jan( that was already moved to Dec 17. I do not except that the explanation given is sufficient. Speaking as a club we have had several rounds this season that we have had 25+ players unavailable for various reasons. Plus the stupidity is that this 10th Jan game only the 1sts and 2nds are scheduled to play so this means that player numbers are not a concern. So, next time this happens, we get the same dispensation (for whatever excuses). I'm led to believe that the VBSL committee discussed the matter and voted to deny their request. SO HOW THEW HECK WAS THIS AGREED TO & BY WHO. Obviously I note the teams they were due to play against were not consulted prior to the decision. I call on all clubs to offer a vote of no confidence in the Board of VSBL and also the State Body of BV as they are killing game in this state. |
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Post by pirates on Jan 10, 2016 19:43:58 GMT 10
what a disgrace. Every club should make sure that we lodge an official complaint this week and have this reversed immediately. Who made the call after the committee regected the request. cant field a team, forfeit the game.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2016 20:01:50 GMT 10
It is a slippery slope if any amateur sports governing body is going to make calls such as this on the basis of perceived unavailability of players (and thereby club chances of playing success).
It is terrific that any club can have so many players qualifying for representative events such as championships. We should applaud that. But let us say, for the sake of argument, that any particular club has a massive social function organised for a Saturday night. Does that warrant arbitrary rescheduling of Sunday games because a club may not be at its best the next day? Surely not.
If a couple of key players are injured or unavailable for particular Division One games, does that warrant rescheduling of particular games at the whim of a particular club? Surely not. And especially without the full and unequivocal support of opposition clubs.
Even given the absence of some players for national championships, most clubs have personnel issues immediately after the Christmas break. Are any others asking for reschedules because the fixtures do not suit them?
Waverley is a strong and wonderfully successful club. I would have thought (with only firsts and seconds scheduled) that they could have seen this as an opportunity to give some of their other promising kids a go at a higher level.
Does it always have to be about winning? Is the issue really about preferential treatment being given to some? Rightly or wrongly, there will be that perception in this instance. It is not a good look.
Clubs who are aggrieved have every right - in fact an obligation to their members - to insist that there is a satisfactory explanation provided for all of this.
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Post by fuzzy on Jan 10, 2016 21:04:53 GMT 10
Sorry to interrupt the topic with baseball results, Royals over the Pirates 3-1 in 11 digs and the 2nds 8-2 to the Royals. After 6 hours at Latrobe I feel the need to quote the Bard of Avon, "Some shade, some shade my kingdom for some shade".
Further to the previous topic I spoke with a number experienced baseball people today and they all mentioned the opening of Pandoras' box in relation to the rescheduling of games based on player unavailability.
This regrettable situation will hopefully create meaningful discussion in relation to the timing of junior championships, our fixture and our winter/summer seasons. Realignment of our seasons could make the ABL more relevant and signed players being able to represent their clubs in finals instead of going off to spring training. May sound a bit radical but I think it's worth talking about after we close Pandoras' you know what.
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Post by larry42 on Jan 10, 2016 22:35:26 GMT 10
It is a slippery slope if any amateur sports governing body is going to make calls such as this on the basis of perceived unavailability of players (and thereby club chances of playing success). It is terrific that any club can have so many players qualifying for representative events such as championships. We should applaud that. But let us say, for the sake of argument, that any particular club has a massive social function organised for a Saturday night. Does that warrant arbitrary rescheduling of Sunday games because a club may not be at its best the next day? Surely not. If a couple of key players are injured or unavailable for particular Division One games, does that warrant rescheduling of particular games at the whim of a particular club? Surely not. And especially without the full and unequivocal support of opposition clubs. Even given the absence of some players for national championships, most clubs have personnel issues immediately after the Christmas break. Are any others asking for reschedules because the fixtures do not suit them? Waverley is a strong and wonderfully successful club. I would have thought (with only firsts and seconds scheduled) that they could have seen this as an opportunity to give some of their other promising kids a go at a higher level. Does it always have to be about winning? Is the issue really about preferential treatment being given to some? Rightly or wrongly, there will be that perception in this instance. It is not a good look. Clubs who are aggrieved have every right - in fact an obligation to their members - to insist that there is a satisfactory explanation provided for all of this. KC, eloquent post as always. As a member of the WBC I'll offer up a brief explanation surrounding the request as I haven't spoken to the other board members for approval to do so, but this would be the basics around the rescheduling requests and common knowledge with BV. I'm not sure of the date that this was first tabled with BV but it was some weeks ago. The initial request came back negative in which the process of how it was dealt with was questioned, then another request put in after that which was agreed on with the rescheduling of two of the three D1 1sts games on the first two Sunday's. With over 20 of the young seniors playing at U16 & U18 National Championships, plus a few playing weekend series this week and next with the Aces, the Board asked BV to consider rescheduling our D1 1sts to be able to compete especially with promotion/relegation dependent on 1sts results. I know this post will be shredded by those who are aggrieved, there is obviously a lot of anger just from reading the thread. I'm just passing on some info as to why. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2016 10:03:43 GMT 10
Larry, it is understandable that any club should seek to do what it perceives to be best for itself and for its members.
While it would be useful to know how the other clubs involved feel about these reschedules, what concerns me are 1. the precedent this has created and 2. the seemingly murky process that was followed after the initial request was denied.
As fuzzy says, maybe it is time that the baseball community looked seriously at realignment or even shortening of its seasons to minimise the issue of player unavailability during the jam-packed December/January period. The idea has been mooted for some time but has still not been addressed - largely because it poses issues of its own, including potential impact on winter seasons.
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Post by wyatt33 on Jan 11, 2016 10:11:20 GMT 10
This isn't a first for this season! An entire round of mid week games for division three was rescheduled just before Xmas, with about 24 hours notice. Why? Because an all star game that was on at altona was a bigger priority for bv....and that they didn't think 3rd div would matter too much! So don't you guys feel like your on your own...this is a poor precedence, but not a surprising one, considering the combatants and their particular influence at the top....just sayin
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Post by wyatt33 on Jan 11, 2016 10:19:58 GMT 10
Just read the release on the bv website...so if another club that is running the bare minimum players across the div 1 seniors, res, 3&4's, also happens to have say 5 players playing representative baseball, would they be given similar recourse, or would they just do what every other club does, and go and scrape together enough players to get the teams up and running, or god forbid, forfeit a game. This does stink of favouritism, doesn't matter how you try and polish it Kane!
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Post by baseless on Jan 11, 2016 12:11:10 GMT 10
The other clubs were not consulted?  It is your job as the club who wants to move a fixture to contact the opposition and request it!!!! That is the rule that is in place. How and why did you move your Round 20 Mid week game for Jan 20 to mid Dec??? You knew the rule then, but forget it now? This is indeed a Pandora's Box that should never have been opened! You only had TWO teams to fill yesterday! You have 5 senior sides and a masters and a womens team! Every one sees this as you could have fielded teams but not strong enough for your liking!! The basebal community is small and we have long memories!! |
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Post by krystalclear on Jan 11, 2016 13:13:21 GMT 10
I am astonished that the people at BV even made a fixture change like this, after the pasting they received from wyatt just prior to xmas I would think they should know better......  |
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Post by fuzzy on Jan 11, 2016 20:30:22 GMT 10
I realize it's only the tip of the iceberg with regard to the problem we are discussing but why are the junior championships starting on the 10th of Jan and not the 3rd. I may be missing something here but wouldn't it be easier for a working bloke to fit in watching his son play with most company's shutdowns having a restart on the 11th of Jan.
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titta
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Post by titta on Jan 13, 2016 22:31:21 GMT 10
I realize it's only the tip of the iceberg with regard to the problem we are discussing but why are the junior championships starting on the 10th of Jan and not the 3rd. I may be missing something here but wouldn't it be easier for a working bloke to fit in watching his son play with most company's shutdowns having a restart on the 11th of Jan. This is the only sensible comment here. That's what it use to be date wise with any tournament, be Old Claxton Shield or under age tourny's. I now think you all need to put the other shoe on!!! Would your club do something in this predicament? Is there any club in the same situation, I'm interested to know? The Club involved asked, the Club involved did not or appeal any decision, please do not point the finger. Love yous all, Titta. PS: I'm looking forward to the feedback!!!!! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2016 22:40:19 GMT 10
I think Berwick could have been in a similar predicament in terms of numbers away (particularly at National Youth Champs), but could be wrong?
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titta
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Post by titta on Jan 14, 2016 5:33:31 GMT 10
I think Berwick could have been in a similar predicament in terms of numbers away (particularly at National Youth Champs), but could be wrong? I think? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2016 7:14:24 GMT 10
Purely speculative Titta - I'm not coming out with Pitchforks on a witchhunt for Waverley nation.
Just noting that last time we played Berwick (just before Xmas) that they had a large number of good juniors making up their 1s and 2s - so based on the above information, I could loosely have guessed they'd have been in a similar state to Wavo for Sunday just gone (particularly since they've had strong numbers the past few years in the NYCs).
More or less, it was to add to the conversation - I couldn't really care less about the situation. Doesn't affect me in the slightest...
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Post by baseless on Jan 14, 2016 14:56:54 GMT 10
Again , why and how did you move the Round 20 Mid week game to mid Dec? Why didn't you use the same procedure to apply to move these games? Again, with 5 senior sides and masters and womens teams how could you not field 2 teams last weekend?
You did ask BV but not the other clubs and when the answer was no , you DID appeal according to Larry42.
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Post by larry42 on Jan 15, 2016 6:22:40 GMT 10
Again , why and how did you move the Round 20 Mid week game to mid Dec? Why didn't you use the same procedure to apply to move these games? Again, with 5 senior sides and masters and womens teams how could you not field 2 teams last weekend? You did ask BV but not the other clubs and when the answer was no , you DID appeal according to Larry42. Like Titta said Baseless, the Club asked, I didn't say appeal, I said request. |
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Post by baseless on Jan 15, 2016 8:59:06 GMT 10
OH WOW Larry, Are you saying Waverley DID NOT appeal after the request was originally denied?
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Post by larry42 on Jan 15, 2016 9:47:38 GMT 10
OH WOW Larry, Are you saying Waverley DID NOT appeal after the request was originally denied? Capitals! That means I/we must... You are set in your opinion here that any answer won't suffice anyway. Put a name to the handle |
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titta
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Post by titta on Jan 15, 2016 10:42:13 GMT 10
OH WOW Larry, Are you saying Waverley DID NOT appeal after the request was originally denied? Baseless, are you saying Waverley appealed? You don't know the whole story. |
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Post by baseless on Jan 15, 2016 11:41:34 GMT 10
You are right , I don't know the whole story. But I do know there was an appeal. How else would the original decision be overturned?
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bcc07
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Post by bcc07 on Jan 15, 2016 12:25:42 GMT 10
I think Berwick could have been in a similar predicament in terms of numbers away (particularly at National Youth Champs), but could be wrong? Definitely hurt, 10-12 out from the 1's & 2's with many of those 2's players generally being first-string replacements on a standard weekend. Couple of injuries and another couple still away on holidays didn't help, but kudos to Moorabbin - we were outplayed all day. |
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Post by Goblin on Jan 15, 2016 14:18:57 GMT 10
Essendon has 19 unavailable this weekend. Does this mean we don't have to play?
Would not for one moment cry not enough players. We just put teams on the ground and suck it up.
I note that when we played Waverley in late Nov we had 23 players on the not avail list for various reasons and we still manned up.
My memory says that in the 1st game last season we had approx 33 players unavailable for selection. (mainly owing to the 1sts squad having to sit out the round do to a carry over suspension from the melee from the previous seasons Grand Final. (the same for Blackburn)
We just sucked it up and dragged in masters and former players and fathers of players who had never played before.
I still consider that game, which was against Sandringham, as one our the clubs top 3 wins ever after we prevailed in a 12 inns nailbiter win. (kudos to AJ Kelly coming out of retirement to knock in the winning run on his double to leftfield)
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It is your job as the club who wants to move a fixture to contact the opposition and request it!!!! That is the rule that is in place. How and why did you move your Round 20 Mid week game for Jan 20 to mid Dec??? You knew the rule then, but forget it now? This is indeed a Pandora's Box that should never have been opened! You only had TWO teams to fill yesterday! You have 5 senior sides and a masters and a womens team! Every one sees this as you could have fielded teams but not strong enough for your liking!! The basebal community is small and we have long memories!!
