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Post by outbackbaseball on Aug 21, 2014 23:03:01 GMT 10
To me, plenty of ppl are interested, they are just not interested in Altona. Plenty follow the team in many different ways, watching online, following players in the USA etc etc - BUT, I know many who do this without investing a dollar in support of the Aces during the ABL season at all. Bums on seats should be the number 1 goal here. I am afraid Altona has proven it cannot do this and it will always struggle to attract people there. A Waverly game a few years back, AUS played Chinese Taipei, plenty attended as the grass area out the back was full of cars + all their car-parks and more out onto the road! I played in a 3’s final a few years back at Melbourne where numbers that day on the hill would compete with any average ABL game attendance. Melbourne BC from memory sold out of food and alcohol stocks were gone in the first hour. IMO, if you don’t change the venue, you will not change the attendance or grow, SIMPLES! The best venues IMO for the Aces is listed below. Obviously they of course need upgrading and many different approvals etc in order for it to be doable. Melbourne Malvern Waverly Springvale. Cheltenham. St Kilda. Port Melbourne Yes of course they all have different challenges, but would attract many more to ABL games than heading over the bridge to a lifeless cement block that appeals to nobody and is miles from anyone also! It is not like this is the first time many have said this either. As for the GM role on offer, my first thought is that this should be well and truly sorted by now. As should their plans be in place for the up and coming season. Not rolling into September and everyone wondering why in Nov/Dec this isn’t working again?? You can change the train driver as many times as you like, but the train still is only capable of the same momentum. Change the train (coaches, venues, rosters, advertising, sponsors, etc etc) and its driver, who knows where it will go, or how quickly! rhricho, I agree with all of the above. I was surprised the Melbourne Showground didn't do a bit better than it did during season number one. It didn't have good dimensions for baseball, but I had hoped its location would have made up for it.
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Post by The Puma on Aug 22, 2014 8:22:24 GMT 10
Johne, I share your same concern regarding the future of the ABL. It hasn't been able to attract enough interest, and other team sports have made bigger moves on the summer season. Winter is locked up with AFL and the rugby codes, but NBL and A-League are jostling for the summer in terms of domestic team sports, and the ABL has to try and take a slice of the market off these sports, which have more money and profile.
As for the Melbourne GM role it's interesting how ABL clubs are trying to get players to take two jobs. John Hussey and Hayden Beard are both players and pitching coaches, and Justin Huber could potentially be a GM and a player. It looks like cost cutting to me. To me, plenty of ppl are interested, they are just not interested in Altona. Plenty follow the team in many different ways, watching online, following players in the USA etc etc - BUT, I know many who do this without investing a dollar in support of the Aces during the ABL season at all. Bums on seats should be the number 1 goal here. I am afraid Altona has proven it cannot do this and it will always struggle to attract people there. A Waverly game a few years back, AUS played Chinese Taipei, plenty attended as the grass area out the back was full of cars + all their car-parks and more out onto the road! I played in a 3’s final a few years back at Melbourne where numbers that day on the hill would compete with any average ABL game attendance. Melbourne BC from memory sold out of food and alcohol stocks were gone in the first hour. IMO, if you don’t change the venue, you will not change the attendance or grow, SIMPLES! The best venues IMO for the Aces is listed below. Obviously they of course need upgrading and many different approvals etc in order for it to be doable. Melbourne Malvern Waverly Springvale. Cheltenham. St Kilda. Port Melbourne Yes of course they all have different challenges, but would attract many more to ABL games than heading over the bridge to a lifeless cement block that appeals to nobody and is miles from anyone also! It is not like this is the first time many have said this either. As for the GM role on offer, my first thought is that this should be well and truly sorted by now. As should their plans be in place for the up and coming season. Not rolling into September and everyone wondering why in Nov/Dec this isn’t working again?? You can change the train driver as many times as you like, but the train still is only capable of the same momentum. Change the train (coaches, venues, rosters, advertising, sponsors, etc etc) and its driver, who knows where it will go, or how quickly! Agree with all of that, like it or not baseball is bigger in the SE. Ideal location would be Mulgrave/Nth dandy area, good freeway access, 20 minutes from Frankston, Dancaster, Pakenham and the city. Part of MLB's 5 year plan was to have dedicated grounds built for all teams. This obviously required a large input from government. No government is going to invest in a purpose built stadium when the current one is getting 300 people to a game. Catch 22. Altona is tarnished and there is nothing that can be done to fix it, to a major extent so are the Aces brand. I don't really think they can come back from here.
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Post by The Puma on Aug 22, 2014 8:33:00 GMT 10
Also as far as the Huber thing goes rumor I heard was he was interviewed before Knox was told. That means he was interviewed before the job was advertised, so either he had the job and the whole interview process is a joke or they didn't like what they heard. Either way they must think people are stupid.
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Post by rhricho on Aug 22, 2014 10:37:03 GMT 10
To me, plenty of ppl are interested, they are just not interested in Altona. Plenty follow the team in many different ways, watching online, following players in the USA etc etc - BUT, I know many who do this without investing a dollar in support of the Aces during the ABL season at all. Bums on seats should be the number 1 goal here. I am afraid Altona has proven it cannot do this and it will always struggle to attract people there. A Waverly game a few years back, AUS played Chinese Taipei, plenty attended as the grass area out the back was full of cars + all their car-parks and more out onto the road! I played in a 3’s final a few years back at Melbourne where numbers that day on the hill would compete with any average ABL game attendance. Melbourne BC from memory sold out of food and alcohol stocks were gone in the first hour. IMO, if you don’t change the venue, you will not change the attendance or grow, SIMPLES! The best venues IMO for the Aces is listed below. Obviously they of course need upgrading and many different approvals etc in order for it to be doable. Melbourne Malvern Waverly Springvale. Cheltenham. St Kilda. Port Melbourne Yes of course they all have different challenges, but would attract many more to ABL games than heading over the bridge to a lifeless cement block that appeals to nobody and is miles from anyone also! It is not like this is the first time many have said this either. As for the GM role on offer, my first thought is that this should be well and truly sorted by now. As should their plans be in place for the up and coming season. Not rolling into September and everyone wondering why in Nov/Dec this isn’t working again?? You can change the train driver as many times as you like, but the train still is only capable of the same momentum. Change the train (coaches, venues, rosters, advertising, sponsors, etc etc) and its driver, who knows where it will go, or how quickly! rhricho, I agree with all of the above. I was surprised the Melbourne Showground didn't do a bit better than it did during season number one. It didn't have good dimensions for baseball, but I had hoped its location would have made up for it. Thinking about this further re ideal ACES locations, (not that it’s probably even a thought anytime soon) I thought the actual ACES driving range (corner of governor road + Springvale road) was a consideration initially? I understand Dandenong, Port Melb + St Kilda was also?? To me driving range had it all and was absolutely perfect. • Multiple baseball grounds nearby (or within 15-20mins,) • Residential housing is at least 2-3 k’s away, therefore noise not really an issue. • Major roads (Springvale road, Frankston FWY, East-link, Monash) that will get anyone there faster than anyone may anticipate. o The Eastlink allows you to get from Ringwood to Frankston in 18 mins (from memory). • Chance to make the ground and stadium as preferred, based on funding of course. • Exposure would be excellent as the quantity of cars passing this area daily is ridiculous. o Yes Altona has that, but it is an industrial estate, nobody really is interested in what is outside the car window driving past there. • Any none baseball person knows this place is the ACES driving range – just change the giant golf ball to a baseball, job done!! OBB, I actually deleted part of my post where I was talking about the show grounds. TBH, I don’t think you can compare apples with apples here as the location of this ground was not really that accessible to anyone. The atmosphere, the ground dimensions (short + long porches) and the bar setup and stands were all fine, but it was a nightmare to get to. The main issue was the exposure for non-baseball ppl, or anyone who wanted to touch base with the game again, may not have known it existed out there so the Aces had to rely on regulars coming out to it each time a game was on. Majority of my mates have nothing to do with baseball at all, their comments are simple. “I know baseball exists, but that stadium out in Altona just isn’t appealing at all” , “why don’t they build it in a better location” The ACES GM should IMO present a well prepared proposal / plan to the sports minister re the sale of Altona to build another facility mentioned somewhere as above. The document would provide a researched and/or estimated evaluation of both venues, all costs and required funding, drafted building plans of what the new ground was to look like, parking and other logistical requirements, all strengthening the need for this required change as soon as possible. It would also highlight the opportunity (now) of the current MLB involvement and additional funding they provide thaat may not be there in years to come. Perhaps the MLB should be approached first for additional funding before being put to the minister? Stating the current venue is holding our sports growth back and players such as Moylan, Huber, Harman, Blackley (plus many other past and present successful VIC baseball players) may thin out in years to come as the sport is on the decline? It may strengthen up the weight of a proposal to the minister with international input of such a massive organisation doing what is possible to push growth of baseball in Australia and in particular in Victoria – a previous baseball power-house! I don’t know any specifics of plans going forward or how things will play out, but like the majority of baseball ppl (who care), I am peripheral to any of this and it is out of my control. But, our sports future is heavily reliant on anyone in these key roles and how they play their cards! This may be dribble to some as it took me 10 mins to write, but someone getting paid to do this would be pushing hard for new opportunities and positive growth going forward, surely??? I’ll shut up now, sorry for the 2nd novel in 2 days.!
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Post by mc15 on Aug 22, 2014 11:18:08 GMT 10
[/quote] The ACES GM should IMO present a well prepared proposal / plan to the sports minister re the sale of Altona to build another facility mentioned somewhere as above. The document would provide a researched and/or estimated evaluation of both venues, all costs and required funding, drafted building plans of what the new ground was to look like, parking and other logistical requirements, all strengthening the need for this required change as soon as possible. It would also highlight the opportunity (now) of the current MLB involvement and additional funding they provide thaat may not be there in years to come. Perhaps the MLB should be approached first for additional funding before being put to the minister? Stating the current venue is holding our sports growth back and players such as Moylan, Huber, Harman, Blackley (plus many other past and present successful VIC baseball players) may thin out in years to come as the sport is on the decline? It may strengthen up the weight of a proposal to the minister with international input of such a massive organisation doing what is possible to push growth of baseball in Australia and in particular in Victoria – a previous baseball power-house! [/quote]
As much as I would love this this to happen, it won't. As soon as returning to Altona as the principle venue for Victorian baseball was revisited, we were locked in there for an additional 15-30 years. The state government has invested approximately $200k+(?) back into Altona over the last three years. They will not justify the $15-20m+ investment required for a new stadium based on the relatively cheap price it costs to slowly upgrade Altona. And hats off for the work that has been done out there. A lot better than it ever has been, but unless a private backer builds a stadium, it just won't happen... Not with government money. In light of that, keep applying for the $50ishk they are getting each year for the up spec and be happy with it until a sustainable, profitable and well viewed league is in place
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smf
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Post by smf on Aug 22, 2014 20:01:33 GMT 10
Am I incorrect, or was there talk of doing something with the Punt Road oval a couple of years ago? What happened to that idea?
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Post by perfeckt on Aug 22, 2014 21:42:34 GMT 10
An Idea. Altona will not, in my opinion, ever gain a constant sell out crowd and I'm sure that the owners of the ABL were aware of this when they made their commitment to the Melbourne Baseball Park. It would not be anything more than a compromise to assure a much needed inclusion of Victoria in the fledgling ABL. I agree with mc15 and his take on not finding $15-$20 million dollars for a new facility in a more suitable and prominent locale and the substantial maintenance costs that would follow. That is unless one of us picked up the $70Mill jackpot from Powerball last night. I thought the showgrounds was a great location, all things considered. However, as has been pointed out the commercial arrangements were cost prohibitive and it could not be a baseball exclusive field for the season. Not to mention the draw backs as a playing field. Finally to the germinating idea and about time I hear you cry. If we are stuck with Altona for the foreseeable future, that is if there is one after the one that is approaching, then a greater expenditure on media might just make a greater impact than the bums on a seats focus. The professional production of baseball games for television and live streaming is no doubt a very expensive option but an option none the less. Let's say that the Aces/MLB International/ESPN, struck a deal with Channel 31 (community channel) and their interstate partners to show the 20 Aces home games live from Laverton/Altona for an average cost of around $50,000 per day. It would cost around $AUS 1 million for a season but would garner an audience way beyond what could be expected from bums on seats and would produce a growth in interest of the non baseball audience which is essential for the Oz league to expand. You gotta pay to play. If you take in to consideration the compensation from visiting teams for the broadcasting of Victorian games, the value for MLB International TV for their considerable commitment, the increased (I believe) interest that is a tangible gauge for Governmental input and the possible sharing of costs with ESPN, then it becomes a bit more viable, tax breaks et al. For arguments sake, let's say it would cost 25% more, I reckon it would still be worth more than waiting for the seats to be filled at our 'field of dreams'. $20M for an upgraded facility or 10 years-15 years of high quality broadcast ? Like I said, just an idea.
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Post by The Puma on Aug 23, 2014 7:22:10 GMT 10
Your probably right about the government paying to move the Aces, like I said it's a tarnished brand. Whisper is that there might be an interest in creating a new franchise, at more than just local level. Problem is it would kill the Aces, and MLB don't want that.
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Post by The Puma on Aug 23, 2014 7:22:53 GMT 10
allegedly.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2014 21:03:39 GMT 10
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Post by stuartcapel on Sept 10, 2014 11:16:58 GMT 10
Sad, but true, isn't it!
We are less than fifty days away from the commencement of what looms as a make-or-break season in the ABL, and the league has been silent for some time now after what was, admittedly, a good period of communication, though they did receive several emails from a certain someone in order to attempt to hold them to previously advised timelines.
The Aces social media has been most active, which has been good, though they do need to sharpen up a little of the accuracy of their content,as does the now former-GM, who had one significant historical blunder in his StrikeZone interview last week.
Still, the ABL front office has been quite consistent for four-plus years now - they will allow people to be keen in the product when they wish us to be interested. Certainly, communication I have received (and in one instance not received) demonstrates just how far away from having anymore than a toe-hold in the Australian sporting environment the ABL is.
The players, coaches, officials and fans however, deserve better.
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player
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Post by player on Sept 10, 2014 19:20:14 GMT 10
Quiet it is indeed on the ABL and Aces front.
I notice, though, that Aces Facebook is again linking to offerings from Australian Baseball Digest.
Things must be going really great out at Laverton if the club is allowing its social media people to engage with and promote the dodgy digest rather than to write their own material!
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Post by stuartcapel on Sept 10, 2014 22:09:47 GMT 10
Strange though, the article the Aces attached didn't mention some of the information the Aces included. There is a social media page which at least one member of the Aces front office is a follower of however that did include the information.
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Post by stuartcapel on Sept 12, 2014 16:45:44 GMT 10
Really disappointing to learn today that the Front Office has decided to switch one of the games from the Brisbane double-header in early November from a Sunday...to a Monday morning.
I'm not sure how the Front Office can justify how this is of great benefit to its current membership and fan bases.
I also trust the players and coaches will be adequately compensated. Those local players who have the temerity to have partaken in full-time employment must now not only take off the Thursday and Friday later in the week, but now a Monday as well. There are only two Monday games scheduled this season, and the Aces are scheduled to play in both. That's a tall order in a semi-pro league.
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Post by parentofone on Sept 12, 2014 17:18:27 GMT 10
Really disappointing to learn today that the Front Office has decided to switch one of the games from the Brisbane double-header in early November from a Sunday...to a Monday morning. I'm not sure how the Front Office can justify how this is of great benefit to its current membership and fan bases. I also trust the players and coaches will be adequately compensated. Those local players who have the temerity to have partaken in full-time employment must now not only take off the Thursday and Friday later in the week, but now a Monday as well. There are only two Monday games scheduled this season, and the Aces are scheduled to play in both. That's a tall order in a semi-pro league. Is this Windsor Knox's one last act of defiance and show of total lack of respect to all & sundry before he takes his long overdue ride into the sunset?
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Post by perfeckt on Sept 12, 2014 22:09:35 GMT 10
Could this be the first 'bye', in the ABL's young history?
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Post by oldracer on Sept 13, 2014 0:11:33 GMT 10
Really disappointing to learn today that the Front Office has decided to switch one of the games from the Brisbane double-header in early November from a Sunday...to a Monday morning. I'm not sure how the Front Office can justify how this is of great benefit to its current membership and fan bases. I also trust the players and coaches will be adequately compensated. Those local players who have the temerity to have partaken in full-time employment must now not only take off the Thursday and Friday later in the week, but now a Monday as well. There are only two Monday games scheduled this season, and the Aces are scheduled to play in both. That's a tall order in a semi-pro league. Having not had overly much to do with the league apart from watching a few games and having a genuine online interest over the years since it's inception, I cannot believe that the league has done this to the players!!!! FFS is everyone kidding themselves that the cattle that put on the show have nothing better to do than play for a pittance, piss off their employers and get overly excited playing to.......................yep crickets, I am exceptionally glad I now have golf to while away my frustrations, this game scheduling is untenable.
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Post by outbackbaseball on Sept 13, 2014 18:38:01 GMT 10
The 2014-15 season hasn't even started yet and the amount of negativity in the air from fans and observers is quite disappointing.
Don't get me wrong I'm happy to see Windsor Knox gone, and I get as frustrated as anyone else with some of the shabbiness in terms of management and communications by the ABL and clubs, but what about the baseball?
We've got a summer of national competitive baseball just around the corner, and maybe this will be a special year for Melbourne. I know it won't be a special year for Brisbane despite all their new front office people and optimism because what they need is quality people on the field to win games, and they don't quite have enough talent to do that. Down here we have plenty of talent and we should be the ones saying we're going to go after Perth!
Accept there will continue to be some not so impressive aspects to the ABL, and focus on enjoying seeing some of our local blokes and imports give the season a good go because that's what I'm going to do.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2014 23:17:04 GMT 10
According to the Aces website, the Monday 10 November game is scheduled on the inaugural Schools Day with (we are told) around 800 kids already registered through their schools to attend.
If the day does in fact draw at least the numbers that are being touted, then it may well prove to be a worthwhile promotional exercise for the Aces and for the ABL.
The fact remains, though, that it will be a tough ask for the local players, coaching staff and volunteers who have paid work commitments. How many of those there will be we cannot yet know.
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Post by bigbluball on Sept 14, 2014 10:38:04 GMT 10
outbackbaseball Your posts seem deliberately vague! I feel you know more than you let on buy having comments about most states. Just this last post is "I'm happy to see Windsor Knox gone"!(VIC). Brisbane needs on field changes (will Nilsson be managing?). I agree about going after Perth (they have proved to be the best set-up in the country after 4 seasons). As I type this Vic has an all new coaching staff (1 coach is still denying his appointment), named 2 imports and protected a handful of youngster's. The fact is the lack of communication from clubs and the ABL is hurting the game here. Quote, "Accept there will continue to be some not so impressive aspects to the ABL". That comment alone gives me the impression of, sorry we run a poor league and sorry we have people being paid while doing a sub standard job but give us your money and we'll see how we go!
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Post by outbackbaseball on Sept 14, 2014 12:21:31 GMT 10
KC, your points are completely reasonable and consider not just the players but all stakeholders making themselves available on a Monday. If it was just a one off people could probably make some arrangements, but the weekday ABL games are problematic, specifically, Thursdays and Mondays. There have been the occasional Wednesday games too. The previous ABL had a lot of doubleheaders, which prevented weekday disruption, but in the current version many players are not in favour of doubleheaders. Import players don't like doubleheaders and some local professional players have expressed the same. Therefore, some of this headache has come about because players are not in favour of doubleheaders.
Bigbluball, my posts are not deliberately vague, it's just some points I don't feel like I need to justify. Considering the many negative comments made on this forum about Windsor Knox, which I might add hardly anyone has jumped in to defend him, so it's not necessary for me to rehash what's already been said. For the record I've met him and his big plastic smile was enough for me. He talks the talk but that's him in a nutshell TALK!
Dave Nilsson has been confirmed as the field manager for the Brisbane Bandits. They are also recruiting some impressive imports, which will be announced soon. However, they'll still be a bit weak because their local talent is lighter than states like Victoria. Brisbane would need six to eight good imports to be able to go to a higher level. Melbourne on paper is far stronger than Brisbane.
You've raised a fair point regarding value for money because ABL games are not cheap considering the profile of the sport. Also, customers are business stakeholders and given the ABL's vision for growth and sustainability people like you and other fans should be cherished, and not made to feel like you're taken for granted.
However, given baseball's lower profile and current inability to generate much income for itself, I see my money as an investment in helping them on their way. I get peeved things are shabby at times, but I see my membership and patronage as the ABL's best chance to get better. Sure, it's a bit ugly at times but one day all aspects of the ABL might be a bit prettier, and my support as a customer will hopefully contribute towards that.
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Post by stuartcapel on Sept 18, 2014 8:48:19 GMT 10
On August 16th it came to light that the Aces were looking for a General Manager, with applications for the position to be finalised just eight days later.
From August 24th, the date for final applications, to now, spans a total of twenty-five days and members and supporters of the Melbourne Aces are still scratching their heads wondering as to why there has been no appointment made. I understand interviews to have been held a few weekends ago, but still there is no appointment - how long can it take to check the references of the leading two or three candidates?
If the incumbent is to be retained, it should be announced as such. If an appointment is to be made, it should be made immediately to ensure that the mistakes of the past four seasons will not continue in season five.
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Post by mc15 on Sept 18, 2014 8:59:58 GMT 10
Application process of a week or so, vetting the applicants for a week or so, interviews for a week or so, deliberation for a week or so. Normal timelines in my mind. Kind of works against the conspiracy myth that the job was already appointed doesn't it? Got to make sure the appointment is right.
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Post by aueagle30 on Sept 18, 2014 12:51:44 GMT 10
If interviews have been held, it's news to at least two applicants, both with a baseball background and business experience (neither with specific experience in managing a professional sporting organisation, but management experience in other industries).
I applied for the job exactly one month ago today. I'm yet to receive even an email from the Melbourne Aces or the ABL confirming my application was received. A similar tale has been told to me by an applicant with a similar background to my own.
Perhaps no conspiracy mc15, but disappointing nonetheless.
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Post by mc15 on Sept 18, 2014 13:33:43 GMT 10
I applied for the job exactly one month ago today. I'm yet to receive even an email from the Melbourne Aces or the ABL confirming my application was received. A similar tale has been told to me by an applicant with a similar background to my own. Perhaps no conspiracy mc15, but disappointing nonetheless. Very unprofessional by the ABL if they have not maintained communications with any applicants aueagle30. No excuse for that. Disappointed you have been treated in this fashion.
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Post by aueagle30 on Sept 18, 2014 16:32:13 GMT 10
To be clear mc15, this isn't about me personally... I'm not easily hurt, upset, or outraged. I'm a nobody and I'm okay with that, but I do think general courtesy should have been afforded, even to the nobodies.
Little things (like courtesy) impress me. I so want baseball in Australia to impress me.
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Post by mc15 on Sept 18, 2014 16:47:28 GMT 10
To be clear mc15, this isn't about me personally... I'm not easily hurt, upset, or outraged. I'm a nobody and I'm okay with that, but I do think general courtesy should have been afforded, even to the nobodies. Little things (like courtesy) impress me. I so want baseball in Australia to impress me. Appointments to positions like this are always complex and sensitive by nature. There is always gossip and innuendo on who is/isn't applying, who has/has not gotten the job, if roles are premeditated/open etc etc etc. There is generally no way of satisfying the masses to you can only rely on two things... the rigour/professionalism of the process and the secrecy surrounding the applicants/status of the job. I actually thought the ABL had been doing a reasonable job of these two points, until reading your post. I hope that this is the only oversight within the process. Poor tact/lack of class absolutely (regardless of whether you have a thick skin or not). Undermining of the process... no (acknowledging that no one has suggested this) May I say hats off to Windsor who has continued to go about his business in a professional manor since the announcement that he would be departing.
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Post by wearnie52 on Sept 18, 2014 19:29:14 GMT 10
Sorry, I have been away for a few weeks and I am not up with the latest on this one. But what happened to the rumour that Justin Huber pretty much had the job given to him? Is that no longer the case?
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Post by stuartcapel on Sept 18, 2014 19:36:31 GMT 10
Someone who is in the know will be in a better position to answer that than myself Wearnie52, but I must concur with mc15, and perhaps raise his words slightly by saying the past few weeks have been the most positive I have witnessed out of the front office during an out of season time.
I do think things can be done better, in a couple of cases much better, but for the moment, things are actually running OK at 26 Merton Street.
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Post by oldracer on Sept 18, 2014 21:47:08 GMT 10
You now on the payroll Stu? ?? you kidding me that things are running positively at the Aces?? pls read above at a couple of well credentialed posters saying that is not the case
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