Pitcher's Helmets

[aueagle30]

For those watching the World Series during the week, you may have heard Tim McCarver state he believed it was time MLB forced pitchers to wear helmets while pitching after Doug Fister was hit in the head by a line drive.

While I think Tim McCarver is the worst commentator since Joe Morgan, it immediately struck me, I can see this happening.

Don't get me wrong, I'd hate for it to happen, just as I hate seeing coaches wearing helmets in the coach's boxes, but given my understanding of how much lawyers and doctors rule our world now, and given an MLB field is considered 'just another workplace', I can see how it will come to pass that pitchers in MLB will be wearing helmets, and as seems to happen, lower levels will follow suit shortly thereafter.

A little debate broke out during our pre-game Saturday (tends to happen a lot around me)... one player in particular was adamant it would never happen... On Sunday, I found this article on the MLB app on my iPhone...

mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=....ws_mlb&c_id=mlb

Though it's likely to be out of your control as a player, coach, or administrator, I'm interested to know your thoughts.

A couple of points of interest I've noticed, MLB is looking at kevlar... wouldn't imagine your club being able to afford kevlar inserts, so if it was passed down to our level, I'd expect it to be skull caps at a minimum.

Also, why don't umpires have to wear helmets? A base umpire in the middle of the infield is second only to the pitcher in terms of forward proximity to the hitter, plus in the line of fire from the 3rd baseman and shortstop (certainly a more dangerous proposition than coaching bases), yet no helmet?

[The Puma]

You see pitchers hats fall off from time to time, I cant imagine how you would keep a helmet on. From a local point I would rather see the whole league go to wood, u16 up.

[aueagle30]

Puma, you could keep a helmet on with a chin strap.

[Deleted]

You could say that the young bloke has been pretty unlucky, but who could blame him for donning the headgear?

Interesting article, Puma. By the way, I agree with your related suggestion on wood bats. I cannot believe that some of the lower senior grades and some Masters competitions still allow aluminium.

It's litigation just waiting to happen.

sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=sh-headinjuries052710

[wako]

Oct 30, 2012 14:41:59 GMT 10 aueagle30 said:

Also, why don't umpires have to wear helmets? A base umpire in the middle of the infield is second only to the pitcher in terms of forward proximity to the hitter, plus in the line of fire from the 3rd baseman and shortstop (certainly a more dangerous proposition than coaching bases), yet no helmet?

It's an interesting demarcation.

Base coaches, especially the 1st base coach, are vulnerable to errant throws from infielders and foul balls slewing off of the bat at difficult to read angles. It is much easier to get a read on a ball hit on a closer line to "up the middle", I think. While it's far from an exact analogue, this is why better-catching cricket fielders are more likely to field in slip and gully than say, mid-off.

As you say though, the base umpire is potentially vulnerable to cross-infield throws, though given he is significantly further back from the batter than where the pitcher's head ends up in his follow-through, and doesn't have to shift focus from the catcher's target to the batted ball the way a pitcher does, he should be much less vulnerable to line drives, I should think.

[wyatt33]

May as we make the folk sitting behind first base also wear full catchers gear! If you go to a ball game, there has to be a certain degree of understand that it's a hard object travelling at speed, maybe extra care is needed. As a person who pitchers at times(rather than call myself a pitcher) I've noticed that I'm a bit sharper when it comes to my concentration, and glove hand. I've also found over the years that pitchers have very good reflexes for this very reason. But could you imagine having to wear a scull cap on the mound? It would actually make it harder for a pitcher to concentrate, and do his job better. They've been playing without helmets for well over 100 years. I reckon it'll be another 100 before they bring it in.

[dazza33]

Oct 30, 2012 15:44:39 GMT 10 aueagle30 said:

Puma, you could keep a helmet on with a chin strap.

Puma has an extensive collection of chinstraps!

[target]

In my mind its coming closer with each incident.

Just a matter of time before it's given the green light. Sign of the times.

[gj]

One of my favoutite subjects KC.
Its is ludicrous that organisers of masters events do not ban tin bats as most if not all of the state associations have. It will take someone to get seriously hurt before action will get taken.
The players are more than happy to use wood, I made representation along with 2 other teams to the Alice Springs organisers a few years ago to go to wood and was told no.
The Pan Pacs organiser has taken it even further, allowing over 45's to use -5 bats (although he suggests that they don't)
There have been a few near misses over the years, Mick Alldis hit one back at a pitcher during the Worlds in Sydney that hit and broke his hand in front of his face.
While the rules allow tin, most players will use it because everyone else does. Just change the rules.

[Marshy]

God you people are fickle!!

I can remember when wooden bats were mandated, there was an outcry. "They are too expensive", "We'll have to buy new bats all the time" blah blah blah.

Now there's an outcry that everyone must swing wood.

The issue Nate raised was whether pitchers should be forced to wear helmets. Regardless of the bat being swung, I am a supporter of that rule being introduced. The skull "caps" we wear when coaching bases are exactly that, CAPS. They could be easily worn when pitching and they only cost about $30.

How much does a skull fracture cost??

[Deleted]

Maybe this thread should be called 'Player Safety' to encompass Helmets & Wood bats etc ?

Anyway, the 'risk continuum' in sport is a fascinating issue in itself ranging from no/low risk (perhaps Table Tennis) to high risk (Aussie Rules etc) and of course one usually accepts this risk (usually in a Registration Form when reading the small print) which potentially protects (in a legal sense) the adminstrators of sports/tournaments....... but should it ??

This is a complex discussion with so many pros and cons but fundamentally the question must be asked that if the people in charge of the rules/playing conditions are not ultimately accountable then will change ever actually occur (if neccesary).

PS: Id love to see the 'science' on Wood Vs Tin and the reaction time difference for say a pitcher on a 'come backer' - also - there are usually 1 maybe 2 coaches helmets in team kits (maybe) and they are 'one size' and often sit 'sloppy' on blokes heads and in the line drive scenario where the base coach (for example) is ducking out of the way the cap will probably come off exposing the head to potential injury anyway Id have thought.

[Marshy]

I don't use a team's jock strap or a team's cleats, I use MINE.

If pitching in helmets was mandated, I would buy my own and would expect that my pitchers do too, ensuring it fits properly.

If you think this is harsh, as a side note, our club does not supply team helmets. Every player has his own (and there hasn't been any tossed or broken.....).

[aueagle30]

Marshy, you don't provide team helmets, but you have a team jock strap? I probably wouldn't use it either, but good you've got the option, I guess.

[aueagle30]

authentic, your point regarding the participants accepting risk is a core tenet of the arguement... societally, we're becoming less inclined to allow the individual to be the determiner of acceptable risk, and are demanding a greater collectivisation of risk acceptance.

The AFL is a prime example, where it used to be each player accepted the risk of injury when he stepped on the field, the need to classify an AFL field as an ordinary work environment for the purpose of collectively minimising risk has resulted in the AFL mandating players now have a 'duty of care' to their opponents.

Paradoxically, teammates do not have a duty of care to each other (if two teammates were running for a ball and one made head high contact with the other, there would be no report/suspension... why not?), and individual players are not required to have a duty of care to themselves (a player recklessly running back into a pack is lauded for his courage, not reported for his recklessness... why not?).

MLB is also considered a workplace and its now inherent on employers to collectively minimise risk for its employees. To not do so would leave it vulnerable to litigation for negligent unsafe workplace practices.

For people participating in sport at a community level, our rules and regulations are often impacted by those implemented at the highest level. While we could never argue a Vic Summer League field is a workplace, the safe workplace regulations adopted in elite sport are always likely to filter down as NSO and State bodies seek to minimise risk.

The individual acceptance of injury risk does still exist, but has been diluted to exclude almost all risk that can be minimised by governing bodies... if a lawyer can prove the risk was foreseeable and the governing body failed to take steps to minimise the risk, its likely the governing body will be found negligent and be liable for any injury that occurs.

Personally, I hate this garbage... sporting fields are extraordinary workplaces that are fundamentally different to an ordinary workplace (AFL for example... in how many 'normal' workplaces is it permitted to run full tilt at one another and collide?... MLB for example... in how many 'normal' workplaces is it permitted to launch a projectile at another collegue as hard as you can?). The process of regulating on the basis of 'ordinary' workplaces has the capacity to fundamentally change the game.

Sporting fields are also fundamentally different to society generally. My thoughts have always been that sporting fields allowed you to express an inate barbarism that would be generally disapproved in ordniary society. It provided an outlet for us to throw things, hit things, extoll our virtues through defeating others, challenge ourselves against other alpha beings... sport was a release from the ordinary expectations of society. The more it's diluted, the more it comes to represent general societies expectations of normal.

That said, if asked what the acceptable death rate of pitcher was before helmets were required, I would have to answer zero, thus losing my argument that helmets shouldn't be introduced before a death occurs.

Geez, I hate this garbage.

[Deleted]

I agree Aueagle, I hate it too.

You raise some good/valid points and I hear you when you (like I) find yourself defeating your own arguement in a somewhat circular (or is it contradictory?) commentry.

For me I liken this sort of issue to driving, we know there is a risk, we put rules in place and penalties for those that ignore the rules that risk others in the process, and we even find ways to try and make driving safer via seatbelts/road laws/speed limits etc BUT we dont MAKE people drive cars (or even make cars be tanks) nor do we make each car regulated to go no more than 100ks for example, thus leaving an element of risk that we all accept and Courts do not interfere with.

There is middle ground here that keeps the game affordable and enjoyable but importantly safe (within reason) Im sure. Are helmuts for all out there within x metres of the hitter an important requirement ? maybe/maybe not ?

[oldmanriver]

Eagle, I agree with what you have stated to the hilt. Maybe we have know found common ground. There is probably more danger to the batter from the pitcher and the fielders from some very ordinary groundkeeping. Sure pitchers are right in the firing line, but generally have the best survival instincts on the field. I found it more frightening when playing Masters Softball standing only 40 feet from some 6"8" Maori swinging what looked like a tooth pick.
I suppose the wearing of a helmet could be introduced into 12's and 14's play with the option when they get to 16's and upwards. In Junior cricket it is mandatory for batsmen to wear helmets along with the w/keepers.
As a footnote. I can only recall only two pitchers ever dying from a pitching incident or playing. One was shot and the other got attacked by some angry money losing spectators back in the 1880's.

[bp34]

I have it on very good authority that a submission will be sent to the VWBL from a winter club asking that all grades use wood for a number of reasons. Seems that all the old boys are in agreeance.

[wako]

GBA players will be swinging wood in all senior grades next winter.

[perfeckt]

Another thought regarding helmets that I've had for a long time now and invite questions as anyone sees fit, is why don't batters have a facegrill on their helmets (ala cricket). I have often wondered why a $20 million player would be allowed to expose themselves to not being able to hit because they lost some teeth or copped a broken jaw. My thinking goes along the lines of pitching helmets and whether they are a benefit or in fact a hinderance/distraction. Is it cultural, is it a display of machismo, is it because it really hinders performance? I Know that the practice of the best cricketers in the world doesn't trickle down to the average club cricketer be they seniors, elite or juniour players. Is the pitching helmet concept any different? Just for the record, I don't understand why umpires in the field are not required to wear helmets as a OHaS formality. Local clubs pay these guys and are responsible for their work place enviroment, therefore local clubs have the right do demand that onfield umpires are required to wear protective head gear. No ax to grind here, I'd just like to hear what others feel about the whole helmet thing. Do we want a player stepping up to the plate or mound looking like ' Robocop'?

[eckersley43]

I am not suggesting that the following invalidates arguments for face protection for batters, but there are several differences in the nature of batting in cricket to baseball.
1. Batsmen deliberately put their body/face in the line of the ball to execute pull or hook shots. In doing so the batsmens face is directly open to the path of the ball. Baseball batters do not move their bodies/faces into a similar position.
2. It is part of deliberate and approved tactics (within limits) to bowl at the batsmens body/head. Any intent to do the same would have a pitcher ejected.
3. There have been fatalities in cricket leading to the adoption of a full face mask incorporated into the helmet.
P.S. I am also not suggesting that cricketers face greater "pain" I would rather take my chances with fast bowling having pads, full helmet , chest guard arm guards and thigh pads all being available, rather than only the "uniform" between a baseball batter an a fast ball!

[larry42]

Some initial research on injuries and catastrophic injuries in US High School and College sports has led me to a figure from the American Association of Orthapeadic Studies that between 1983 and 2009 there were 52 'direct' related deaths in high school baseball and 15 'non direct' deaths. Of the direct related fatalities it didn't state if they were hitters being hit by the pitch, pitchers hit by comebackers or other direct contact incidents. Thats only high school results in that time, not College or other independant baseball.

The reports show that the greatest injury risk is in kids between 5-14 and that although a number of the other high school sports has a higher injury rate (US Football, Lacrosee, wrestling) baseball injuries can be more catastrophic.

I can see some protection coming in for the younger age groups at some stage, but am sure that would be years down the track. Pitching helmets and indeed infielders wearing helmets has only just taken a foot hold in some schools/regios in the states.

Im a little surprised that i dont see more infielders wearing mouthguards. I guess its an acceptance situation. See the kids at the Little League World Series wearing mouthguards certainly makes it easier for young kids here to accpet when they see that. I know that ive been fighting with my son to wear one, more so in practise when he's out taking lots of infield grounders, but he's also had recent head injuries that have made us as parents more wary and concerned.

[oldmanriver]

Just a thought, while we are discussing the merits of helmet or no helmet, we seem to have forgotten the most important apparatus any male could wear when playing sport. THE PROTECTOR. But besides that being the first bit of safety gear to be worn, the more I think about pitching helmets, the more it does make sense for the younger brigade to wear them. Granted, it doesn't protect the front of the face, but it will protect the cranium. Mouthguards should along with the protector should be made mandatory. I do believe that is does deserve discussion at a higher level when any findings delivered to the Clubs for further discussion before a decision is made. But in my eyes it does hold some merit.

[stuartcapel]

Strange enough OMR, I basecoached a game on the weekend where the third baseman was wearing a mouthguard, so there are some out there who have taken the first step.

I know it's not a protective device in some ways and is getting the topic slightly off focus, but having come from a cricket background, and with a Primary School somewhat at the end of our street at home, I'm surprised that the wearing of the wide brimmed hat (the old Greg Chappell signature hat) hasn't been implemented in some of the junior baseball ranks. I understand they are mandatory at Primary Schools in the state of Victoria now, but not on our sporting fields. I can understand a pitcher and catcher perhaps not wearing one, but even on the morning's where it's not to the hot temperatures we sometimes get in summer, the UV is still an issue and I see no reason why an outfielder shouldn't have a club wide brimmed hat on.

I'm sure SunSmart and BV could work together and come up with a policy and program for this.

[aueagle30]

Stu, fortunately sunscreen was invented and should save us all from the travesty of ballplayers wearing wide-brimmed hats.

Larry42, I don't mean to deride your concern as a parent, but isn't the issue of a mouthguard more to do with vanity than safety? I wouldn't have assumed the risk of 'catastrophic' injury from a ground ball to the mush being that high... sure, a crooked smile and some added expenses for dental work, but not potential death/disability.

Why do we need so many rules to protect us from the risks of activities we chose to do? We choose to play baseball, a sport with over 150 years of tradition and history. The risks involved in the sport have barely changed in that time, yet now we're worried there's not enough rules in place to protect us.

I like the restrictions on the bats (not necessarily wood, but US Colleges have introduced new restrictions on aluminum that has greatly reduced the exit speed and made them similar in performance to wood), to minimise the impact of technology on our game. But the need to enforce rules on everyone to protect them from everything is madness (perhaps only to me?).

I have two big scars across my forehead from being hit by flying baseball bats (perhaps a rule that everyone must use pine tar is in order!)... both times seriously rung my bell, and there's no doubt I'm more aware of my surroundings than before. But I am absolutely not going to start wearing a helmet around the park because there's a chance it might happen again. There's nothing to stop me wearing one, just as there's no rule to stop you wearing a mouth guard, or a helmet when you pitch (grey area, there could be if the uniform cap rule is interpreted that way, but I'd doubt an umpire would take the risk of enforcing a 'no-helmet' rule)... if you want to protect yourself, you can.

I take the risk when I step on the field and I don't ask for everyone else to be protected because I've suffered. I take the risk and I accept the consequences.

[gj]

gj junior in his last year of 18's lost his 2 front teeth when a bad hop on the infield hit him whilst playing first base (Don't know why he was playing there in the first place). Convinced him to wear a mouthguard at least for a couple of years until his memory faded - should be mandatory for kids.
My original post concerned masters. A lot of the older guys swing the bats as hard as they ever have, its the reflexes and eyesight of the fielders that have reduced significantly. Recipe for a bad accident.

[Marshy]

Nov 1, 2012 12:17:41 GMT 10 aueagle30 said:

I take the risk when I step on the field and I don't ask for everyone else to be protected because I've suffered. I take the risk and I accept the consequences.

The lack of willingness to say this, and stand by it is what's fundamentally wrong with our society.

The whole "insurance" debate also falls into this category. If I got injured on a baseball field, I would not expect anyone else to pay my medical expenses. That's what my private health insurance, income protection and savings are for!

Man up. If you play sport, you may get hurt. Deal with it.

[Deleted]

Nov 1, 2012 14:24:56 GMT 10 gj said:

gj junior in his last year of 18's lost his 2 front teeth when a bad hop on the infield hit him whilst playing first base (Don't know why he was playing there in the first place). Convinced him to wear a mouthguard at least for a couple of years until his memory faded - should be mandatory for kids.
My original post concerned masters. A lot of the older guys swing the bats as hard as they ever have, its the reflexes and eyesight of the fielders that have reduced significantly. Recipe for a bad accident.

We talked about this in the Masters Sub-Committee Evo and I 'straw polled' most of the current Masters team organisers 2 months ago and broadly speaking the collected view was as follows...about a third feel it should be Wood in all grades (currently Wood only in Div 1), another third said 'reluctantly' that it should changed (to Wood) but wanted one more year with Metal in Div2, and about a third are happy with how it is.

There were a variety of reasons behind these positions.

So we recommended change (to Wood) but as seems to be the case with any change, it will take a year before it can take effect apparently and even then its not guaranteed to change

[eckersley43]

Speaking as someone with a Primary school background, wearing of wide brimmed hats whilst playing sport is P.C. stupidity. Try running and taking an outfield catch with the brim obscuring your vision and the hat bobbling, even with a chin strap. There were even cases of P.E. and Sport being cancelled because of extreme U.V. risk..not surprising with the pathetic level of commitment to school sport in the last two decades in many schools..because..you have guessed it..competition is bad! It's "external" sport that is wagging the dog with Primary school sport. What other subject in the curriculum could be conducted by some individuals who don't know even know the most basic rules..let alone provide any practice or skills development.

[farnt]

Nov 1, 2012 14:24:56 GMT 10 gj said:

gj junior in his last year of 18's lost his 2 front teeth when a bad hop on the infield hit him whilst playing first base (Don't know why he was playing there in the first place). Convinced him to wear a mouthguard at least for a couple of years until his memory faded - should be mandatory for kids.
My original post concerned masters. A lot of the older guys swing the bats as hard as they ever have, its the reflexes and eyesight of the fielders that have reduced significantly. Recipe for a bad accident.

I think a kid lost two teeth at the state try outs at Waverley last week...

[shunter]

Oct 30, 2012 15:14:57 GMT 10 The Puma said:

You see pitchers hats fall off from time to time, I cant imagine how you would keep a helmet on. From a local point I would rather see the whole league go to wood, u16 up.

I said this once before and i agree 100%. I think the comment made was new players coming in would not get a hit, well they will learn just like the rest of us switching to wood.