Womens Winter League

[awb]

This is a post to spark discussion as to why the womens winter competition is struggling to remain viable. We once had a well established competition in which both winter and summer clubs submitted a number of teams in the Womens Winter League. Since then, we have dropped the ball terribly. We are now struggling to get a winter competition up and running at all. Three teams in total were submitted this year, and credit goes to those women players who showed commitment to the competition, when they could easily have walked away.

Baseball Victoria's response so far is to suggest that we grow participation through clinics and baseball development coordinators. I think this may help, but doesn't really address the issue as to why we cannot get women playing winter baseball! This is in contrast to the mens competition, where winter is seen in many respects, as a more enjoyable and relaxed league to play in.

Just wondering if anyone out there had any ideas as to how we can grow the womens game and get back to the healthy womens winter competition we had a number of years ago?

[tick]

I don't know if i have any ideas on how to get the winter comp back to what it was, but i thought i would share my thoughts anyway. I played in the winter comp before starting summer, but once starting summer ball i quickly found that it is a much more organised and supported comp. From things on a club level like coaches/canteen/being part of the club, to VBA things like having umpires and providing enough games (i remember some seasons being very short in comparison to the mens comp, makes you wonder at the time if it's worth it or if the administrators cared about the comp at all)

When the comp started to go down hill a few years ago, i don't think anyone did much to stop it , things like clubs entering teams of women into the lower divisions of the mens comp impacted quite badly.

Clinics and baseball development coordinators could be a good idea but i think it would take a lot of convincing for girls that used to be involved to go back to it.

[pepperoni]

I think you hit the nail right on the head Tick, when you say that the 'girls would need to take a lot of convincing for the girls to get involved with things such as clinics and baseball developments'. There are girls that I used to know from my days at springy that are really pro active about their womens baseball and helping the cause, ie, simone werne, kelly navotne, mandy, chantelle ross and from recent memory kelly wolfe when she was at dingley. I think the problem lies (Im generalizing here a little bit too, so give me a break), the rest of the womens baseball community are after a free ride and trying to swing off the mens coat tails in relation to wanting the same sort of success and organization as their leagues.

[pepperoni]

sorry i wasnt finished, i accidently hit post reply... what i was tryin to say is that the womens league have to put their own hands up to build a successful competition/program. you are not a charity and therefore people wont stick their hands in their pockets just for the sake of it, what im saying will offend many of you, but I think even though Im probably no where near 100% right, there is still some validity in my comments.

[tick]

I'm not sure that we are after a free ride, a fair ride yes. The summer comp is great and run very well, but the winter league i'm not convinced ever was and i think success comes from the top, particularly in a 'developing sport' such as women's baseball. If the people running the league take it seriously and put the effort and resources into it then the more people will enjoy it and become involved. Now the really hard job comes from pretty much starting from scratch again, rather than Building on a good thing like they had a few years ago which i think would have been much easier!

With girls being proactive, yes the girls you mentioned do a great job as do a handful of others from each club and when you only have 1 or 2 teams per club, i think you'd find find that the percentage of proactive women is comparable to proactive men, the only difference being the size and depth of the mens comp.

Some of the problem with the level of 'proactiveness' (is that even a word?) is that its all on a club level, perhaps there needs to be some sort of women's league committee with a rep from each club??

[gopies5]

I have had no involvement with Women's Winter baseball but at summer level have been involved since its inception. The women's teams at my club, along with a few others, have been fortunate enough to stay strong and competitive each season due to the women's teams receiving support from the committee etc. Unfortunately this has not been the case at all clubs and many of the inaugural members of the Women's league no longer field teams. I don't think the women at any club are looking for a "free ride" at all. Of course there are always those at a club who think that the only place for women is making the salad rolls and putting on the hot dogs in the canteen and unfortunately I think there have been a few members of the VBA pennant committee with the same attitude.

[flip]

My opinion for what it is worth. I beleive that there are several factors to the lack of numbers for Womens Winter ball. They start with the fact that we play this sport 12 months of the year and it appears that some people just need a break. There is also the whole distance travel issue - over winter most of the games are a little closer within the mens comps. I think you will find that a number of women actually prefer to play in the mens comp, and be closer to home.

As for support from BV, well maybe it could be promoted a bit more. But if they are serious about womens baseball as a whole they need to pick up there game and develop it a whole lot more. But there is another important factor in the equation - clubs need to support the women, not they are not after a free ride and i think in most clubs the women put in their fair share, but most have the attitude "it just womens baseball" therefore it is inferior.

Remember the development should start at the juniors and we need to promote junior girls, there is a large number of girls out there playing in the junior ranks but we seem to lack the transistion to senior womens, we are losing them when they get to the 12/13 age bracket because that is when the boys start to dominate and the feel intimidated.

[dafarm]

The washup for the winter comp from my perspective was:

- Lack of club/player interest
- Lack of advertising/interest from the Associations
- Cost of running a 3 team, 6 game each competition
- New Ideas...

- Lack of club interest:

It seemed that Monash Uni, Melbourne Uni and Frankston (and maybe Fitzroy, but they pulled out) were the only clubs to pro-actively support getting a winter women's competition up this year.

Our club were very active in putting a women's team together - at one stage we had 15+ girls training with us, in the folorn hope that a competition would materialise.

At one association meeting prior to the season, two club secretaries were told by the Association that they had women who were interested in playing - and it was the first they knew of it.

So speak up if you want to play! Take some ownership.

- Lack of advertising/interest from the Associations (DBA/BV)
Our women's team organiser was the one ringing around other clubs trying to rustle up interest. Surely this is the associations role (BV (thanks Dean, BTW) did admittedly contact the clubs, but by that stage it was April).

- Costs

The cost of playing the 6 game season was $275 plus the cost of BV registrations ($38 per player). That's $625 plus what we pay for ground hire, equipment balls and umpires. That's way too expensive. If the same number of teams are competing next year, it's almost expensive enough to consider running the competition privately.

I don't think anyone would expect a winter womens baseball comp to be as big or as long as a Summer comp, but it still needs to exist, otherwise people will be lost to the sport. I know for a fact that if there is another 6-game winter comp next year, half of our womens team will go do something else.

New Ideas!
However maybe the winter competition needs some invigoration to generate interest. Perhaps all the players who are interested can go into a draft or something (each team to get a starting pitcher and a catcher though) to play for a random team at a "center" each week? Meaning that if we have 40 interested players (8 from Monash, 12 from Melbourne Uni, 10 from Frankston and 6 from Chelsea, 4 others), a comp can still definitely go ahead.

[nudrun]

how is BV ment to help womens baseball when they cant even get the mens sorted........
To see change for the players ( women and men)
you need a change at the top....
maybe its time for some new blood at BV.. ( more women at board level )
it seems like people are talking but nobodys listening

[pepperoni]

"Post removed by Admin"

Maybe in jest but poor taste never the less in a forum that is genuine on trying to initiate ways to lift the profile of Womens Baseball.

[flip]

Peppi move intot he 21st centary!!

it is dumb statements like that in public forums that do our sport harm!!!

Might be in good humor to you, but think about your audience!

[Reggie]

Just my crazy idea why you get no support.

YOUR TERRIBLE.

[southside]

Thou shalt edit accordingly...

Read the previous posts... you've all answered your own questions, and then take a look at the new VBA board that is planning to combine the leagues. One woman on it, as Junior Secretary.

Don't see any other women on it. Unfortunately I must side somewhat with pepp in his above comments (pre-lunacy), women need to be better represented. If it wasn't for a handful of pro-active women players at a number of clubs, there wouldn't be a women's comp.

[flip]

Good move Admin, removing peppi's post!

[pepperoni]

why remove the truth ??

[thegreathambino]

post it again pep

[wildcat09]

dont do it pep. You are an asset to this forum and a soon to be all-ster, dont need you getting banned.

[thegreathambino]

yes the all-star voting, like the brownlow, does rely on fair play.
any conviction will result in ineligibility

[pepperoni]

what i meant to say is "cook da man some eggs"...... reference site: 'jake the musk from once were warriors".

pepperonie..

PS, girls can you please reply and stop this type of insult.

[tick]

Jake the musk hey.....

any relation to jake the Muss?

[pepperoni]

sorry tick, i dont know who you are son, but are you any relation to elton john cos i feel you are of the same sexuality... not that there is anything wrong with that.

[tick]

haha....or i could just be a girl which is more likely.

[tick]

but let me guess...your a really tough bloke right???

[tick]

perhaps after i work in the canteen i could also help to teach you some witty one liners?

[flip]

Tick......Peppi has to go to car washes to pickup girls.........must be as good with the girls as he is with the one liners!!!

[pepperoni]

ha ha ha ha, you are soo funny flip... but seriously your not funny, seriously ummm ahhh yeah, your not funny... and also ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, i dont have to go to car washes to pick up girls, i only go to these car washes to look cool in front of my mates... i'm easily influenced. and guess what, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, my mates think im funny, seriously ummm ahhhh yeah, they think im funny... sorry mate, just how it is.

[tick]

someones got to

[flip]

Sad Case (s) is the only way to explain that!!!

[pepperoni]

i agree guys, people shouldnt condone my attitude etc etc.... but the fact of the matter is, there is a DBA mens grand final on this weekend. I am pretty sure there is some girls out there playin a tball final, indoor cricket or rounders final this weekend or something... just make sure you are back in time to heat up the hot dogs and make up the salad rolls for after the mens game.

[tick]

as thrilling as that sounds i've already made plans to wash my hair and paint my nails, sorry