|
|
Post by Goblin on Nov 28, 2012 13:24:01 GMT 10
The next consideration was the clubs and their views, based on the survey... I won't go into the specifics of the survey, however I'll note a few important factors in the decision... but first, off topic, but something I've noted in the past we, as clubs, need to improve, only 2/3 of the clubs listed on the Summer League website participated in the survey... until clubs improve our capacity to a) work together and, b) communicate our needs effectively, clubs will miss opportunities to provide a clear message of their priorities. Based on the survey... almost all clubs voted to either have the game rescheduled or remain as scheduled.. “The vote by clubs was overwhelmingly in favour for a rescheduling of senior club games to avoid a conflict with the ABL All Star Game,” said Baseball Victoria CEO Brett Hidson. So, supposedly only 2/3rd of club officially replied. Our club received a reply from BV stating that the voting was 50% Senior games re-scheduled 40% voted no change to the schedule 10% Games be cancelled So, based on these stated facts. If only 2/3rds submitted a vote (lets call that an even 20 clubs for convenience sake.) So, that means (approx) 10 club voted for a reschedule 8 clubs voted for the games to go ahead as fixtured on the Sunday 2 clubs voted for ALL game to be cancelled. So, there is approx 30-32 summer clubs. This would mean that 10-12 clubs never voted. There WAS NOT an overwhelming vote of clubs to reschedule There was not even a basic 50% of ALL SUMMER CLUBS. Did anyone followup with clubs who did not submit a response? Could it be that they were not even aware of it. As stated this has a bad smell about it Shame Shame Shame |
|
|
|
Post by aueagle30 on Nov 28, 2012 13:52:33 GMT 10
Goblin, as I said earlier, I'll leave it up to Brett to defend the definition of 'overwhelming'.
Clubs that didn't respond were not followed up... this follows the same process for any vote on any issue put to clubs for the past decade.
I've argued this in the past, even before my involvement on the SLC, clubs must become better at participating in these votes. They must be more diligent in keeping their club contacts up-to-date, keeping up with checking their correspondence, and in responding when given the opportunity.
In particular, the process of this vote was set up online and took less than a minute for clubs to access and respond. If a club is fulfilling its obligation to maintain up-to-date contacts with BV and regularly check its correspondance (please keep in mind this issue was raised at the P&S meeting last Monday and all attendees were informed a vote would be forthcoming later in the week), the process for a club to vote should have been pretty simple.
By not voting, club have missed an opportunity to properly express the priorities important to us. In doing so, those that have failed vote have also undermined their ability to defend their position if the result runs against their wishes.
Repeating my earlier point, and according to your percentages above, 90% of the votes were to play these games... the SLC respected this desire, but also felt it was imperative to free the Sunday of club games in support of the All-Star Game... with a lack of a more ideal alternative, moving the game to the Saturday was considered the best option.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2012 14:07:47 GMT 10
In my humble role as messenger, I had no knowledge of the voting that occurred (until now), although I am not surprised that only a small number of clubs voted for a cancellation. Had I had knowledge of the voting I would almost certainly have sought to qualify the quote.
In fairness to him, I believe that Brett's comment (that I quoted as provided to me) was unfortunate rather than designed to mislead.
90% of the clubs who voted wanted the games to continue - whether on the day scheduled or at another time. I have the sense that was what the CEO was seeking to convey.
So an "overwhelming" number of clubs was certainly in favour of playing the games on one day or another, leaving the Summer League Committee to make a decision.
A tough call and one that in the end came down on the side of the 50% opting for a reschedule (compared with 40% wanting to leave the games on Sunday).
I'm not quite sure what else the SLC could have done. If it had gone with the 10% saying call the games off, or if had gone with the 40% saying play on Sunday, it would be getting whipped even worse.
If clubs chose not to vote (and I believe they were all invited to do so), then that was their call. Lead a horse to water, that sort of thing.....
What we can be sure of is that the ABF, the ABL and Baseball Victoria desperately want the game to be a success, largely because of the reasons that aueagle outlined earlier. A full-on clash with club baseball would probably have been a disaster for crowd numbers and would have been less than impressive for the massive viewing audience, for sponsors and for government.
The timing of the game was poor, as it turns out (for a number of reasons). That is something that should be looked at for next time around. For example, early in January might be a better option.
|
|
|
|
Post by Goblin on Nov 28, 2012 14:15:14 GMT 10
(please keep in mind this issue was raised at the P&S meeting last Monday and all attendees were informed a vote would be forthcoming later in the week), the process for a club to vote should have been pretty simple. . With respect, I was at the P & S meeting and all that was discussed was that "there is going to be a clash" normal club games and All-Star game. It was stated that BVSL were unsure of what direction to take and asked clubs present their thoughts. (It must be also noted that there was a severe shortage of clubs represented). It was stated that clubs are asked to speak with their members and get back to BV with the clubs thoughts. It was even said if 2 opposing clubs wanted to make their own arrangement it would be fine. the SLC respected this desire, but also felt it was imperative to free the Sunday of club games in support of the All-Star Game... with a lack of a more ideal alternative, moving the game to the Saturday was considered the best option. So, bottom line, regardless of the clubs wishes BVSL committee decided that it was imperative that there was no local ball played. "No ideal alternative" How about letting the games go ahead as scheduled. Why we we even asked if it was just going to be a railroad. Give me a break...... |
|
|
|
Post by Goblin on Nov 28, 2012 14:29:06 GMT 10
Nate, Thanks for the taking the time to outline things.
We might not agree on the final decision but hey, thems the breaks.
It is much appreciated by all.
|
|
|
|
Post by perfeckt on Nov 28, 2012 15:12:58 GMT 10
I can see clearly (straight off the bat) that BVSL found themselves between a rock and a hard place, possibly a hard place not of their making. External factors obviously played a role, maybe Tax payers $'s were used with certain proviso's or the senior partner of the league may want to reach a larger broadcast market or mabye.....? I don't really know but I still believe that the energy expended on this attempt at the social engineering of the paying baseball players/supporters to help bolster attendance figures would be better directed (energy that is) at promoting/advertising/marketing this potentially great event to potential converts to the game. Splash advertising ! Splash incentives ! Put on bus and coach services from the city and its satellites and advertise the service. Make it very easy for the uninitiated to be aware of the event and very easy for them to attend instead of trying to force the issue onto club players who want to play ball and not particularly want to watch it. I must say that this situation doesn't affect me one jot.
|
|
|
|
Post by frita on Nov 28, 2012 15:48:01 GMT 10
Goblin, I'm with you! Stinks all the way but thats what we've come to expect with any decision.
And perfeckt not in a million years will any of that happen It's way to smart! They rely on the paying player to do anything and that will not change under current circumstances.
|
|
|
|
Post by shoeless on Nov 28, 2012 20:01:35 GMT 10
It's hard to please everyone, but obviously if the crowd is bigger at a partly Government funded event at a partly Government funded stadium then there is more chance that the Government will again inject funds into our sport, if no-one shows up then no money for baseball, sorry guys but play on Saturday and enjoy a Millers on Sunday at Altona.
Unfortunately the rock beats the hard place in my opinion.
|
|
|
|
Post by 4crownies on Nov 28, 2012 20:35:41 GMT 10
Footscray voted NO. And now with 4 games scheduled at home for that Saturday, our women will be getting priority to game times as it is not their games that have been re-scheduled.
Games at 9, 11.30, 2, and 4.30 should make for a big day. Hope Ormond are happy about this. However if they are not, speak to the people who made the changes.
Quick question. What if no-one from either clubs has any intention of going to the All Star game.Can they still play Sunday?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2012 21:51:09 GMT 10
Footscray voted NO. And now with 4 games scheduled at home for that Saturday, our women will be getting priority to game times as it is not their games that have been re-scheduled. Games at 9, 11.30, 2, and 4.30 should make for a big day. Hope Ormond are happy about this. However if they are not, speak to the people who made the changes. Quick question. What if no-one from either clubs has any intention of going to the All Star game.Can they still play Sunday? And there it is.....the easy & obvious solution, clubs/players have the option, if anyone from either team wants to go to the All-Star game then they all play Saturday otherwise they can all play Sunday as Fixtured and not go to the All Star game , instead of all having to play Saturday AND NOT GO TO THE ALL STAR GAME ! |
|
|
|
Post by oldmanriver on Nov 29, 2012 7:33:15 GMT 10
Assuming that the Juniors are playing, our little Div 4 side will soldier on at 10.30am in the morning. And I was starting to think the BV improvement was on the way up and what happens, it all becomes a crock of sh!t. Oh well, status quo has been restored. I' m happy now. I still doubt if rescheduling the round will improve the attendence. What would BV do if games were to be played on the Sunday between agreeing clubs. Would the game be sanctioned, would umpires be told to turn up. What a wonderful conumdrum. Once again, the hole just got deeper. Is there no end to the insanity of playing baseball. On a scale of 1 to 5 in comparison to any other sporting body that I have been involved in BV rates about a 1.
|
|
Camov
Junior Member
Posts: 90
|
Post by Camov on Nov 29, 2012 9:36:07 GMT 10
Thanks nate for the offer to play at geelong.
We have put it into consideration along with other options and working with BV to come to a solution for our specific problem.
I just wanted to clarify that im all for the idea of not having games on the same day as the all star match but that williamstown did not vote due to conflicting interests.
It feels like in some ways we are missing out on seeing this allstar game as the Opportunity it is and the great benefit it brings to melbourne.
I hope in future years the date and location of this and other major events can be factored into the fixture pre season.
So all parties can plan for and get the most out of it.
|
|
|
|
Post by homer29 on Nov 29, 2012 21:10:35 GMT 10
If they want the game to look like a full house, get 2000 cardboard cut outs. Going to be hard pressed to find people to attend who have dropped everything to play for their club on the Saturday so close to Xmas.
|
|
|
|
Post by oldmanriver on Nov 30, 2012 11:40:23 GMT 10
I am starting to come to the opinion that the SLC is at a times a toothless tiger and does bugger all, fancy being told by umpires what they demand and want and getting it. (** Admin Edit**)  Play the ball, not the man |
|
|
|
Post by oldmanriver on Nov 30, 2012 14:50:18 GMT 10
Just been informed that all games on the 16th Dec must be finished by 11.am. Just who now is running the League, BV or the Aces. Even a 10.30am game can't proceed and finish at 12.30pm. As if our players were going to MBP. I will be interested to find out how many grounds are shared with cricket. Good thinking 86.
|
|
|
|
Post by aueagle30 on Nov 30, 2012 20:27:41 GMT 10
I am starting to come to the opinion that the SLC is at a times a toothless tiger and does bugger all, fancy being told by umpires what they demand and want and getting it. OMR, the request by the Umpire's Director was made last season, prior to my involvement with the SLC, therefore I was not privy to how the SLC decided to agree to the request. However, regardless of your opinion on the defensive visit rule, which is a standard rule of baseball in most leagues around Australia, are you honestly suggesting the umpires and SLC shouldn't be working together to improve the effectiveness of the rules and address concerns of umpires, equally to the concerns of players and coaches? I notice eagle that Geelong play all most their home games on a saturday, not a real problem for Geelong to play on a saturday, but it seems to me that the SLC seems to make a suit yourself decision and bugger the rest of the clubs. I'm unclear exactly what you're implying here? Are you suggesting that despite the SLC consisting of eight people, from different clubs and with different backgrounds, that the decision to move the game to Saturday was made because my club didn't object to the game being moved? That this decision was for the benefit of the Geelong Baseball Club, even though it's left our members rearranging their plans on three weeks notice, just like every other club? That despite my ten years as a manager in the Summer League, in which time I have had to deal with dozens of SLC decisions that have been counter to my wishes, I can't have empathy for other clubs now having to adjust to a decision they don't like? That I, as a person who has given countless volunteer hours to our sport, who has assisted numerous clubs outside my own in improving their programs, who has conducted accreditation programs and junior clinics all around Victoria, am so selfish that I would abuse my position on the SLC and disregard the concerns of other clubs? Please, have the courage to clearly outline what you're saying here, so all reading can get a clear indication of just how foolish you are. |
|
|
|
Post by aueagle30 on Nov 30, 2012 20:30:31 GMT 10
Just been informed that all games on the 16th Dec must be finished by 11.am. Just who now is running the League, BV or the Aces. Even a 10.30am game can't proceed and finish at 12.30pm. As if our players were going to MBP. I will be interested to find out how many grounds are shared with cricket. Good thinking 86. To my knowledge, the only game still scheduled for the Sunday, December 16 are junior games. These games are scheduled to finish at 11am. I don't see the problem here, unless there are games being scheduled to the 16th I'm not aware of? |
|
|
|
Post by trober on Nov 30, 2012 21:14:12 GMT 10
I must say I'm stunned by the call to boycott the all-star game. How short sighted can you get. I'm sure everyone here wants a dedicated baseball facility built in a location more convenient to the masses which won't happen if there is seen to be no support for baseball in this state. Here we are now, in a position where the state government has made a financial contribution to our sport, and what happens?? What a fantastic way to show the state government that it should be investing in baseball. If people stay away from this game you can kiss goodbye any chance of government funding moving forward
|
|
|
|
Post by eckersley43 on Dec 1, 2012 13:15:17 GMT 10
Regardless of the circumstances, to boycott the game seems incompatible with wishing the sport to prosper. To "punish" the All Star game, is a case of cutting off the nose to spite the face...and while I am on cliques..how about the big picture etc?
|
|
irb
Junior Member
Posts: 45
|
Post by irb on Dec 3, 2012 13:05:49 GMT 10
I just want to lend my support to the views expressed by the last two contributors. It's been disappointing to read extreme points of view calling for a boycott of a game that has been well supported by the State Government, and that provides a rare opportunity for Melbourne people to see and support their national team. There is nothing to be gained by staying away and more to lose than might be imagined. Let's be positive and see the bigger picture to our sport.
|
|
|
|
Post by pirates on Dec 3, 2012 14:32:36 GMT 10
While I completely understand the sentiment and points of views about the leagues handling of this particular weekends senior games. They cant please everyone and maybe they should allow some clubs to go ahead with planed events.
The truth is this will be a great game to attend for a number of reason.
Australia playing in the lead up to the world classic should bring out the best of our nation against some real talent that the clubs and the ABL have brought out to play in our local leagues. But more than that, if you consider the economic times and the pressure on governments to save money, we have had the government tip in some big bucks to make this happen. This is bigger than the individual issues that some have with the league and their constant fumbling in the administration of our sport. They do a good job for most of it but lack some attention to detail in certain areas.
I have heard that last year there was some 30 million people tuned into this game and we can see this years live for $15.00....I can’t wait to be part of the capacity crowed.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2012 14:35:42 GMT 10
pirates, estimates from last year have the potential TV and online audience at well over ten times the figure you've mentioned.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2012 14:43:10 GMT 10
Personally Id love to see the All Star Game 'packed to the rafters' !
Id also like BV to better understand the needs of its primary contituents i.e. the players (and Clubs) when they fixture games AND to be a bit more flexible when it comes to re-scheduling games.
|
|
|
|
Post by wearnie52 on Dec 3, 2012 15:02:41 GMT 10
It's a breath of fresh air to hear a few positive comments today in regard to the All-Star game. Great to hear!
Whether it has been handled right or wrong by BV, i can't believe there are people who are suggesting it should be boycotted. Embrace baseball and enjoy it. This is an event we may never see in Melbourne again. I've got my tickets and can't wait to be a part of it.
|
|
|
|
Post by stockley on Dec 3, 2012 15:54:34 GMT 10
It's a breath of fresh air to hear a few positive comments today in regard to the All-Star game. Great to hear! Whether it has been handled right or wrong by BV, i can't believe there are people who are suggesting it should be boycotted. Embrace baseball and enjoy it. This is an event we may never see in Melbourne again. I've got my tickets and can't wait to be a part of it. and these comments of boycotting coming from people claiming to be some of the Aces biggest, most loyal fans... Look to the bigger picture... Was it poorly handled? yes. Should it be reviewed for future? yes. Should the ABL be put at risk by the short sightedness of people trying to get people to stay away because it doesn't suit them? HELL NO! |
|
|
|
Post by perfeckt on Dec 3, 2012 18:22:21 GMT 10
I wont be in the country when this event so I'll just have suffer and watch it online......from Hawaii!!! : D
|
|
|
|
Post by oldmanriver on Dec 4, 2012 11:22:33 GMT 10
I hope that the fixtures get altered accordingly. I am planning on going to the AllStar game with the lad. Should be alright. Not really happy about the two Geelong trips in three weeks. Certainly a good way to get the frequent flyer points up and get the lad a few hours driving. Let's bring on the All Star game and enjoy it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2012 10:50:40 GMT 10
How's everyone going getting teams on the Park t/row ?
We have 6 Senior teams (and usually plenty left over) and one of our teams (fortunately) has a BYE - and yet we have 2 of our 5 teams struggling to get 9 on the Park at the moment !
|
|
|
|
Post by Goblin on Dec 14, 2012 12:04:17 GMT 10
How's everyone going getting teams on the Park t/row ? We have 6 Senior teams (and usually plenty left over) and one of our teams (fortunately) has a BYE - and yet we have 2 of our 5 teams struggling to get 9 on the Park at the moment ! Like yourself it has hit us hard. We have 20 players unavailable to play. 18 of these is a direct result of the game being changed from Sunday to Saturday. Despite rounding up some extra numbers we had no option left available other than to forfeit a game as we could only half fill one of them. Absolutely crap that players are forced to miss a game. And don't give me that "for the greatta good" bullsh*t as I'm well over that craptrap. |
|
