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Post by Goblin on Jul 11, 2012 15:57:39 GMT 10
Umpires of Juniors, Masters, Seniors of all levels are encouraged to attend. Local and Interstate Instructors with State, National and International experience. When : 21st, 22nd & 23rd September Where : Waverley Baseball Club See attached flyer for full details  Attachments:
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gamer
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Post by gamer on Jul 12, 2012 21:11:11 GMT 10
Goblin,
Whilst I have a very healthy respect for umpires the one thing they don't seem to teach is ' The Best Umpires are the ones you don't see during a game' That is to say, they make all necessary decisions but don't get too carried away with their own importance and impart their authority unnecessarily duirng games.
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Post by perfeckt on Jul 13, 2012 18:21:34 GMT 10
Love to hate 'em, hate to love 'em, can't do without 'em. Must admit that even though I don't want to be an umpire, attending a seminar might help me understand the challenges that they face, every single pitch.
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gamer
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Post by gamer on Jul 13, 2012 18:59:18 GMT 10
Well put perfeckt. I have umpired on many occasions and I must say I didn't enjoy the pressure that some coaches / players impart on the umpire. The one thing I try to do when I umpire is to control the game in such a way that the teams in question only remember the game for the hits and outs etc., not what the umpire did to assert his authority.
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Post by eckersley43 on Jul 13, 2012 20:01:18 GMT 10
Gamer is free to make any observation about umpires in practice, but he is incorrect in his assumption re "teaching" and being overly officious or the centre of attention. Game management and the avoidance of problems by correct mechanics and rule knowledge are taught. This doesn't guarantee 100% successs, but no system of teaching can.
If ALL players (most do) controlled their actions and language umpires wouldn't have to exert authority. Clubs have the option of making reports or verbal feedback to umpire administrators if they feel than an umpire is not acting appropriately.
I agree that the aim should be not to be seen..bit hard to always achieve that if one team/spectators think the umpire has blown a crucial call...which may or may not be the case.
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Post by oldmanriver on Jul 23, 2012 13:26:02 GMT 10
Having been around Baseball for nearly 47 to 48 years, the best umpires are long gone and the current crop of umpires would be hard pressed to have three or four that would be classed as competent. The rest of the umpires that I have seen try to hard to be the game and forget that they are there to only arbitrate. It is very hard to have faith with the new crop of umpires coming through as there knowledge is short of the mark, panic in pressure situations and guess strikes and balls half the time and if asked whether high/low they will eject you for dissent. What they should learn is tolerance. The first preriquisite should be, have you played the game and at what level. Then and only then will they have an understanding of the game and a better understanding of what a player goes through in a game. That they don't teach at any seminar.
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Post by eckersley43 on Jul 23, 2012 19:57:04 GMT 10
Can't argue with your assessment , even though I don't agree with it,OMR because it is your experience, except on one specific point. Most catchers work with the umpires and get feedback on pitch locations without anyone else having to "asK'as in the pitcher who is working to the strike zone..some umpires will volunteer the info.Can't see any reason why anyone else in the defence needs to know the location..The only way there could be an ejection is if the so called "question" was actually full on dissent..if not then protest the ejection. If it's the batter "asking' then most times it's actually arguing balls/strikes
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2012 23:07:28 GMT 10
So it's the "good old days" for you, OMR.....
You infer that you played baseball at the highest levels and have thereby acquired that "understanding of the game". Perhaps you would accordingly like to volunteer your services to help out at the Umpiring Seminar. It would be much appreciated.
We all want to get better at what we do, players and umpires included. Former players have gone on to become some of our better umpires, although some would disagree that playing experience is a prerequisite.
Seminars like this are a positive step in the right direction. Surely we should be supporting umpire training so that we can produce properly accredited people who know how to arbitrate effectively and well.
Surely we should be encouraging all regular senior umpires to be sharing their experiences and their knowledge with the view to becoming consistently better.
If you don't agree with such training seminars, OMR, what is your alternative?
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Post by oldmanriver on Jul 24, 2012 16:02:11 GMT 10
I would completely support umpire seminars if it were not for the fact that ex players don't seem to be invited to speak to the umpires about the emotions that occur during the game. All they seem to talk about is rules. Also having umpired for quite a few years since my early twenties(not the twenties) I think I do have a feel for what could be required to find an acceptable level. Many years ago the umpires at the end of the game would sit down with you and have a beer and discuss the days play, but nowadays, the new crop are almost unapproachable and do not wish to discuss the days play and they seem to disappear quite rapidly. The best item that an umpie could learn is communication.
I do agree that seminars like this one is a positive step but only if used constructively.
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Post by oldmanriver on Jul 24, 2012 16:19:45 GMT 10
Sorry KC, my alternative would be for past players to be invited
to speak the umpires about the pressures of the game and to be more tolerant and communicate with the players instead of trying to ignore them. Also, be an umpire and not the game. The best um[ire is the one you don't notice. The biggest teachingwould be that it not a schoolroom but a playground.
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Post by flip on Jul 24, 2012 16:32:10 GMT 10
OMR - maybe you should attend, then you would know what the teachings are. Who knows you might even learn a thing or two.
I have heard many a player (even with the years in the game that you have) say, I didn't know that was the rule or that is how the rule is interpreted.
I can assure you that game management is a big component of the teachings. But despite the efforts and the reenforcement of the instructors you cannot always change a person and the tones in which they speak. But they put their hands up to umpire, unlike many others, so maybe some of the players need to be a little more understanding too...
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Post by oldmanriver on Jul 24, 2012 16:56:16 GMT 10
Flip. You talked me into it. I think I will go. Especially as it is on the way home.
Look forward to meeting you.
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Post by flip on Jul 24, 2012 18:55:39 GMT 10
Unfortunatley I will not be able to make it this year, but I am sure the BUAV would welcome you and anyone else to attend, even if it is to get a better understanding that most umpires love the game as much as the umpires and are there to do the right thing by the sport.
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Post by eckersley43 on Jul 24, 2012 19:06:09 GMT 10
Umpires not approachable after the game OMR??? Not sure where you play, but every game I have been at invariably the umpires are around after the game and are happy to talk to players.Maybe your umpires don't feel welcome to approach you after a game, but more importantly OMR have YOU made the efFort to chat with an umpire after the game..or do you expect the one out umpire to invite himself/herself into your conversation/group of friends. Judging by your "assessment" of umpires previously posted, I would have thought the umpire would have to be crazy/ a masochist to approach you after a game.
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Post by farnt on Jul 24, 2012 20:16:44 GMT 10
I agree - after games last few weeks as a manager and player i have had a beer with the boys in blue and discussed plays amongst other things. It's got to work both ways - we've discussed decisions, I've agreed I was wrong and they've agreed they may not have been as correct as they could have been (but never wrrr...wrrrr...wrrr....wrong a la Fonzie). You've got to have a bit of give and take like any relationship whether it be personal, professional or umpiring - it's about respect. you got to walk a mile in their shoes simple as that.
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Post by oldmanriver on Jul 25, 2012 7:39:36 GMT 10
Sorry, I should have clarified. The older umpires that have been around for a while do remain after the games for 40 or so minutes and are very approachable. I should have stated, the younger generation seem to pack up and disappear rather quickly. I would say over all the years, there would probably be only a small handful I wouldn't go out of my way to talk to them after a game, but as a whole, I don't have a problem with the men in Blue, Green and Red, in fact, I do respect the umpires and also being a registered and qualified umpire I quite often discuss with the umpires after a game some aspects of what occurred. I am not that big an ogre to be inconsiderate in not to talk to an umpire after a game, after all we have to pay them cash and usually the first can of coke/beer.
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Post by camblue on Jul 25, 2012 19:52:58 GMT 10
Oldmanriver I have a proposition for you, I will come out of retirement and attend the umpire seminar if you are prepared to speak and impart all your baseball wisdom, its seems even "I" could learn a thing or 2 from you. I hope realize the people looking after umpiring in Victoria have been instructed by the best in the world when its comes to umpiring. I hope to see you there?  |
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Post by oldmanriver on Jul 26, 2012 8:06:47 GMT 10
Camblue, I will be there with bells on and look forward to the occasion. But as my old pappy use to say, You can be taught by the best, but it doesn't mean you too will be the best.
Perhaps you coming out of retirement will improve the current stocks.
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Post by camblue on Jul 26, 2012 9:50:08 GMT 10
Will see you there on the Sunday OMR
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2012 20:41:57 GMT 10
Hi David and/or turtle06 ... can I ask that there perhaps be some discussion about umpiring Masters games at this Forum please.
This is not a dig as I admire the way most umpires go about officiating our game, and most umpires of Masters games do 'get into the spirit of the game' whilst still calling it as it should be called.
But there are one or two of your colleagues who perhaps see this differently ? ... it might make for some interesting discussion therein.
I add that whilst Masters is ideally played for the most part with a determination to win entwined with enjoying the process and respecting the game and ones opponent, there are quite a few players as well that struggle with this balance at times.
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Post by wyatt33 on Aug 10, 2012 9:15:44 GMT 10
Having been around Baseball for nearly 47 to 48 years, the best umpires are long gone and the current crop of umpires would be hard pressed to have three or four that would be classed as competent. The rest of the umpires that I have seen try to hard to be the game and forget that they are there to only arbitrate. It is very hard to have faith with the new crop of umpires coming through as there knowledge is short of the mark, panic in pressure situations and guess strikes and balls half the time and if asked whether high/low they will eject you for dissent. What they should learn is tolerance. The first preriquisite should be, have you played the game and at what level. Then and only then will they have an understanding of the game and a better understanding of what a player goes through in a game. That they don't teach at any seminar. A good umpire doesn't have to have played the game at a high level! A good umpire should have complete knowledge of the games rules, and be able to follow thru with their ability to call balls strikes and outs! Yes, they need to know there place but to suggest that they have to have played is irrelevant. With some of the attitude towards the umps from members of the baseball community, no wonder no one wants to get into it! Who'd want to be abused, yelled at belittled etc for trying to adjudicate a game of park baseball! |
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Post by The Puma on Aug 10, 2012 10:00:59 GMT 10
Camblue, I will be there with bells on and look forward to the occasion. But as my old pappy use to say, You can be taught by the best, but it doesn't mean you too will be the best. Perhaps you coming out of retirement will improve the current stocks. To Oldmanriver, This is a personnal inventation for you to attend the 2012 BUAV seminar at Waverley start 7pm 21/9 and unti 23/9. I have believe you have been providing your knowledge and information regarding baseball umpiring to the forum members. So I would like to hear more of this and hoping to learn from your wisdom . Here "]http://www.vicumpires.baseball.com.au/?ID=78005] link I look forward to meeting from BUAV President David Milton PS: posted by the turtle I am just astounded that the head of umpiring for BV thought it would be a good idea to post this. |
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swag
New Member
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Post by swag on Aug 10, 2012 15:39:47 GMT 10
Oldmanriver, obviously you are a washed up old wanta be baseballer than can't play or umpire, because if you were, you would be out there doing either, if you think you can do a better job then own up to who you are instead of hiding behind a name on here. It's people like you that there is no umpires. I'm not an umpire myself but i am sick and tired of listening to people like you. Stop being a sook and the up!!!!
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Post by delvin on Aug 10, 2012 15:57:34 GMT 10
well said swag i believe omr might have serve quite a few weeks on the side lines for various things
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Post by gj on Aug 10, 2012 16:17:11 GMT 10
Not sure I understand the OMR bashing.
If you read what he says, he is spot on. If the umpires had a bit of rapport with players and coaches instead of treating them like the enemy all the time the animosity would disappear and a lot of the umpire abuse would not happen.
I have played o/s with some NCAA guys in control. They were brilliant, not necessarily with their calls etc but the way they controlled the game and gave the players and coaches due respect which was then returned.
His comments on the umpires chief were obviously of a personal nature between the two of them. I have seen first hand what he means.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2012 16:24:41 GMT 10
To put a more positive spin on a discussion that has the potential to derail, I believe that two instructors at the Umpires' Seminar will be Brett Robson and Paul Hyham.
Brett is well regarded as an umpire at AAA professional level and Paul enjoys great standing in international baseball, having officiated at the Beijing Olympics and the 2009 World Baseball Classic.
The input of both blokes at the seminar should be invaluable.
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Post by gj on Aug 10, 2012 19:24:00 GMT 10
Welcome to Melbourne Buster.
Last time I saw him he wasn't standing, but rather sitting in a saddle in a rafter of a pub in Alice Springs
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Post by eckersley43 on Aug 13, 2012 20:31:54 GMT 10
I for one look forward to OMR's "talk" at the seminar, if only to enlighten him that 95% of umpires were players..maybe he thinks recruitment comes from ex water polo players! We know what it is like to be given calls we didn't agree with. Hopefully he will contribute something more enlightening, such as why only 3-4 are any good (his assessment) and of course we could give special OMR stamps of approval to the chosen few. Somehow I think he will be a "no show" which would of course be leading by example in the "folding under pressure" he also mentions.
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Post by oldmanriver on Aug 21, 2012 14:01:46 GMT 10
Eck43. I will be attending. Unfortunately being an ex Water Polo player, i suppose when i signed up to be an umpire in Baseball and did a course many years ago I didn't realise that it would be ground breaking being a water polo player and baseball umpire at the same time.
And as for your ignorant attempt at humour with the now show, it is obvious your reading skills do let you down, as I did previously state that I will be there. I will be wearing the red carnation.
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Post by eckersley43 on Aug 21, 2012 17:47:05 GMT 10
OMRiver..maybe your oral expression skills let you down, as the "no show" was reported elsewhere..maybe you were misquoted. I will be practising my reading skills in anticipation, especially regarding flowering plants so that I recognise your corsage.
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