Winter Baseball - Week Seven

[Deleted]

First week of June and all leagues are in serious preparation for the Senior Carnival in Geelong.

Well, some are....

[The Puma]

I heard there was a couple of guys tossed today before their game for drinking, now moral issues aside, is there any rule that says you can't have a drink before a game? I know you can be tossed for drinking during a game, but can you be tossed for having a beer before your game?

[perfeckt]

If you're in uniform, I think yes.

[Deleted]

In the GBA, Saints pulled off a last-gasp 6-5 win over Ballarat Brewers with four in the bottom of nine (maybe the Brew Crew should have had an ale beforehand, Puma).

Guild trailed into the seventh before heading Deakin 4-1 and Lara assumed ladder leadership by thumping Bacchus Marsh 17-2.

Two games on Sunday. Guild vs Brewers at the stadium (2.25 start) and Bellarine vs Bacchus (2.25 at Wallington).

www.geelongassociation.baseball.com.au

[kb19]

B Grade
Forest Hill 15 - Latrobe Uni 5

B Reserve
Forest Hill 7 - Latrobe Uni 2

[Deleted]

Where's The Jack gone ? - I hope someone hasnt given you the brazen bits mate ?

NC Rebels beaten by a good Westagrth side y/day who hit the ball hard early and got a 3 or 4 run lead and held on well. The Rebels now know what they are up against so the next 10-11 weeks will be a great challenge for the boys.

We drew 8-all with a somewhat depleted Westgarth 2's team that came back at us after we skipped away late.

[stuartcapel]

Berwick 8 Cheltenham 3 in the B3s yesterday, with the Rustlers leading 2-1 into the sixth in a game that went eight innings. Their ladder position doesn't do them justice and they'll win their share of matches after the break.

Heard whispers a young Chelt thrower (15yo?) threw a shut-out in the A2s at Bonbeach. Fair effort by the young man if true.

[easyout]

In relation to the players at Dandy who were not permitted to play because they'd consumer alcohol BEFORE their game, and the protest in play that followed, there are only two published rules in the DBA's official online rules document regarding alcohol. One is regarding the consumption of alcohol at junior matches. The only relevant Senior rule is this:

"11. Smoking Etc.

No alcoholic beverage or smoking shall be permitted upon the playing field.
Without warning offenders shall be ejected from the game with no subsequent action
apart from a fine."

So since these players were ejected for drinking BEFORE their game, the umpire has made a poor decision that is not based on any published DBA rules that I can find. It should fairly quickly be overturned by the DBA committee and then they'll decide what to do from there to make it right.

If DBA uphold the umpires decision, they're going to struggle to justify it based on written published rules available online, unless there is another rule book somewhere DBA use that isn't available on their website?

Reality is, the players as I understand it weren't in uniform (unless I've been misinformed), and were not intoxicated (and even if they were, there is no rule dictating policy on intoxication during play that I can find), therefore they're well within the realms of Victorian and local law and the umpire cannot do or say anything about it.

Interesting to see how it plays out.

[oldmanriver]

The DBA under the guidance of their Pres will run off to the BV to get advise and comeback with some thingy and bull story to justify backing the umpires whether they are right or indifferent. Apparently an umpire can stop a player from taking the field if he is detected drinking prior to game in uniform.
It generally will cop a suspended fine and a severe slap across the wrist and a lecture on temperance and the evils of alcohol.

[oldmanriver]

The DBA under the guidance of their Pres will run off to the BV to get advise and comeback with some thingy and bull story to justify backing the umpires whether they are right or indifferent. Apparently an umpire can stop a player from taking the field if he is detected drinking prior to game in uniform.
It generally will cop a suspended fine and a severe slap across the wrist and a lecture on temperance and the evils of alcohol. If that is the case then, there could be very little baseball played in the DBA in the lower grades as from what I have seen, most players are prone to the evil drink or two prior to a game. Thank heavens no umpires get to umpire low grades every week. Unfortunately intoxication doesn't come into it. Generally only umpires from a certain schooling background will enforce this supposed rule. I wish the Dany boys good luck..

[sueridgpipe]

Rumour has it that the players in question were brought to the umpire's attention by their opposing coach in the early game. Unbelievable what some people will do to get an advantage.
Intoxication is not the aim, the team in question is a very social one that enjoys an ale together and making sure that we put dollars into baseball clubs wherever we play as we expect the same when they come to ours.
That being said they were not overly concerned about the amount of booze consumed post game while their fridge was taking a hiding!

[Deleted]

Guild won the second of its GBA doubleheader with a 5-2 Sunday result over Ballarat, which slumps to fourth (at four and three).

Bellarine posted its first win of the season with a 7-0 whitewash of Bacchus Marsh, which remains in the cellar heading to the break.

www.geelongassociation.baseball.com.au

[eckersley43]

I wasn't at the game, but I bet the players were in uniform..they don't BECOME players until they are in uniform, or take the field or are listed in the lineup.Otherwise they would be spectators/visitors.Also raises the question as to where they were drinking..clubrooms? dugouts? What will be the definition of being in "uniform"..total/part or just a club cap? I would have thought that the umpire could make a report if he/she so wished. I don't follow how players can be legally ejected from a game that hasn't commenced.If they can it would be an interesting scenario if two opposing players were arguing in the change rooms before a game..presumably the umpire could eject them. Surely this can't be the case!

[Camov]

by definition, you surely cant "eject" someone from a game that hasn't yet started.

preventing them from taking the field therefore is a whole different kettle of fish.

an umpire has a duty of care, written or otherwise, to provide a safe environment for the game to be played. (think weather conditions state of the field etc)
Upon "witnessing" players consume alcohol before a game his duty of care would require him to prevent those players from taking the field where they may cause harm to someone else or themselves due to the effects of alcohol.

if what has been stated by other posters is correct then it seems like the blue did the right thing.


in other news Melb Uni was back on the winners board with a 3-1 win over the bees. Sam Mooney was a welcome return from college and corey hart had a great debut game in the 1's.

[Deleted]

I used to think it was pretty funny hearing about how an opponent or two of ours back a while ago used to have a 'traveller' or three for away games in Winter.

Now I just think it pretty ordinary and brings the game we love into disrepute.

[Deleted]

Camov: Correct

authentic: At last - the voice of reason!!!!! Absolutely correct.

[The Puma]

So after 1 beer you can still legally drive but your too pissed to play baseball?

[stockley]

There is actually a code of conduct specifically mentioning the consumption of alcohol by players on and around the field, mentioning that said infringement may be dealt with by the board.

It brings a lot more issues into the sport than just too pissed to play .

BV and by extension it's leagues, umpires, clubs and players have a duty of care to each other. The umpire doesn't know if somebody has been drinking out of sight, but if he sees someone drinking within his sight, must question how much that person has had to drink, and assume more than he's seen. You wouldn't be let into a pub after drinking around the front door... Not to mention the repercussions of legal action if anything went wrong involving the player...

There are other issues involved, such as the Good Sports program that BV and I believe all member clubs are signed up to.

I think the more concerning point personally, is the example the player is setting for his teammates and worse still, kids around the club at the time. Honestly, the fact people are defending this staggers me. I would certainly hope the club are treating this more seriously and responding.

[The Puma]

Completely agree stockley, never been a fan but there are plenty of people who do it, more so in the lower grades but I was more interested in an actual ruling as I couldn't find one. You may be right re the code of conduct, I guess it could cover alot of things.

[stockley]

www.baseballvictoria.com.au/site/baseball/vic/downloads/Administration/Policies/Infringement%20Policy.pdf

[The Puma]

(d) Consume alcohol, “dip”, smoke or chew tobacco before, during or after game completion whilst in the vicinity of the playing diamonds, particularly in the presence of Youth Players;

Acording to that you could have a beer in uniform before or during your game as long as it's long as it's not in the vicinity of the playing diamonds, but could be in breach out of uniform after the game. Clear as mud.

[eckersley43]

As a non drinker I am not supporting drinking before a game as desirable,for a variety of reasons, but I still fail to see how observing a non uniformed person who turns out to be a player can by definition be seen to be a legal risk as presumably the umpire has only witnessed or been told of one drink.What if the player is heard to say he had "a couple" at a nearby pub. It is a can of worms! Unless a rule is introduced banning alcohol consumption at the ground by all players pre game with a prescribed action/penalty it shouldn't be in the realm of punishing something because we disapprove of it.

[Deleted]

The line umpire of the Melb Uni vs North Balwyn A Reserves game was taken to hospital Saturday mid-game. Just wondering whether there was any news/updates on him? Camov? I hope he's alright, never a good thing to see

[Deleted]

Jun 4, 2012 9:11:13 GMT 10 @darkness33 said:

The line umpire of the Melb Uni vs North Balwyn A Reserves game was taken to hospital Saturday mid-game. Just wondering whether there was any news/updates on him? Camov? I hope he's alright, never a good thing to see

Was that young Batesy Lando ? - hope he is alright.

[broohaha]

Stockley, like Puma I completely agree with you but fail to find or see anywhere that the player shall be ejected prior to game. Very grey area, but duty of care is certainly the main priority. However, if the letter of the law is be fully upheld, let's at least be consistant! How many blokes do you see "in the vicinity of the playing diamonds" having a smoke? I know this is not a duty of care standpoint (apart from one's own personal health) but they are mentioned in the rules in the same sentence. I agree action should be taken but if we act on one, then act on them all! I certainly don't condone getting blind before a game or drinking at all prior to game and rules are rules and there to be upheld but let's not go overboard!

[Camov]

last i saw lando he was being taken out by the paramedics on a stretcher bed.
he was conscious, and alert, if not a little frazzled. as yet haven't heard anything more.

on that note, what a great effort by his partner for the day, Jordan (not sure of his last name) who stepped up to umpire his first A grade game. did a great job to keep his composure after all that had happened, and called a good game from behind the dish.

[Deleted]

Jun 4, 2012 11:08:12 GMT 10 Camov said:

last i saw lando he was being taken out by the paramedics on a stretcher bed.
he was conscious, and alert, if not a little frazzled. as yet haven't heard anything more.

on that note, what a great effort by his partner for the day, Jordan (not sure of his last name) who stepped up to umpire his first A grade game. did a great job to keep his composure after all that had happened, and called a good game from behind the dish.

Please let us know if you do hear anything Camov.

And young Jordan Bates is the umpire you speak of. Called a good zone for the whole 2 hours after doing the plate for the 2s. Not a bad day out for him at all, as he's only 16/17.

Unfortunately for us, some bloke called Ryan with a Grizzly Adams-esque beard threw a CG for 1 run and a few scattered hits, and they did enough with the bats to get a win. Campbell Wiggins with an early highlight for NB with a 9-2 outfield assist to end the 2nd inning. Besides that and an Andy Mann double, not much to write home about for us.

[oldmanriver]

You don't exactly get ejected from the game, but are prevented from playing the game. You are only ejected from the game if nabbed during the game with no further penalty. Just watch insanity prevail.

[stuartcapel]

Puma, I am sure if you saw an opposition player get out of the car sinking a can, and not long later he gets on the hill and drills your lead-off hitter, a junior, in the head, you would react, not just because of the junior being struck, but because you'd seen the pitcher drinking before the game.

Now, perhaps there is no rule in place (why do I think a similar thing happened at a Division Two levelgame at some stage over the past two seasons), but perhaps it is time to ensure there is no grey area in the book and make it absolutely black and white.

[dazza33]

stuartcapel what has happened to the weekly DBA pre-round post.........was great reading last season.