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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2012 13:53:03 GMT 10
The rule has applied in some Masters tournaments for a decade or more, where aluminium is still allowed.
Others, like the Vic Masters, have simply opted to outlaw tin bats in line with most governing bodies.
Apart from the all-important safety considerations to which Marshy refers, it avoids confusion and ongoing issues and debate about how and why the -3 differential should be applied and enforced.
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Post by The Puma on May 21, 2012 14:18:01 GMT 10
After Saturday I think Houghy should play off the handicap of -3 to bring her back to the field. d**n near won the game of her own bat. Someone in the family had to have talent.
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Post by houghy49 on May 21, 2012 14:38:31 GMT 10
And who says I don't hit oppo?!
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Post by oldmanriver on May 21, 2012 15:04:27 GMT 10
Centremetre perfect I believe!!
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Post by houghy49 on May 21, 2012 15:14:51 GMT 10
I do believe that was from me willing it to stay in as I was running up the line!! No harm in telling the ball what to do if it's going to comply
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Post by oldmanriver on May 21, 2012 16:00:54 GMT 10
and very nicely it did too!
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Post by MF on May 21, 2012 19:19:21 GMT 10
(c) Baseball bats shall conform to the rules and standards as set out Australian Baseball Federation (ABF) T-Ball: 2 1/4" (Two and One Quarter Inches Diameter) shorter length bats may be used to suit smaller players. Under 12/13: 2 1/4" (Two and One Quarter Inches Diameter) Under 14/15: 2 5/8" (Two and Five Eighths Inches Diameter) Under 16/17: -5 (No Barrel Restriction, maximum length 33”) Under 18: -3 (No Barrel Restriction, can only swing a -3 or a -5 weight drop) Adult: -3 (No Barrel Restriction, can only swing a -3 weight drop) [...] Doesn't say it's applicable to 'open' or 'women's' grades Nice find. By way of comparison, Section 10 of the DBA's "Section C COMPETITION RULES" just says: 10. Uniforms and Equipment [...] (e) Bats. Wooden bats are compulsory for A1, A2 and B1 grades. Wooden or aluminium bats may be used by all other grades. (f) Caps. [...]
One would presume that the Section C Competition Rules _do_ apply to "open" grades and -- given that Section G WOMEN’S COMPETITION RULES does not mention bats -- also the women's grades. I also note that the Official Australian Baseball Rules at the ABF web site allow non-metal bats without any weight/length restrictions (see section 1.10 "The Bat") - www.baseball.org.au/site/baseball/abf/downloads/rsources/ABF%20Official%20Australian%20Rules%206th%20Edition%202010_FINALS.pdf
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Post by MF on May 21, 2012 19:22:45 GMT 10
Guys, [...] It's a safety rule. Marshy, the question is not about safety but rather about whether there is such a rule or not. My reading of the BV and DBA playing conditions is that there is no such rule. Whether there should be or not is a completely different question.
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Post by oldmanriver on May 22, 2012 15:56:38 GMT 10
It appears to another of those famous unwritten laws that creep in to baseball on a regular basis. Just another load of piss and wind.
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Post by The Joker on May 22, 2012 16:50:39 GMT 10
In the MWBL, this rule is very clearly spelt out in the 'Senior and Junior Playing and Match Conditions' www.mwbl.baseball.com.au/site/baseball/vwbl/downloads/Match%20Conditions%20-%202012%20-%20Final.doc Rule 3. BASEBALL BATS - Seniors: Baseball bats for A Grade, A Reserves, B Grade, B Reserves and C Grade must be wood or wood composite / laminated as approved by the Australian Baseball Federation. Baseball bats for all other grades may be wood or wood composite / laminated, aluminium, ceramic, or carbon graphite in accordance with Australian Baseball Federation Rules. 115 decibels will be the maximum sound emission limit standard for non-wood bats. The maximum allowable weight differential for non wood bats is -3 (difference between length and weight of a bat) (e.g.) a 32” long 28oz bat would be -4 differential then it is not to be used. EXCEPTION: For players 14 & 15 years old - they are permitted to use their junior bats that allow for a -5 differential. NOTE: I also believe that club's are allowed to send individual requests to the league for special consideration if required.
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Post by 4crownies on May 23, 2012 22:30:29 GMT 10
In the MWBL, this rule is very clearly spelt out in the 'Senior and Junior Playing and Match Conditions' www.mwbl.baseball.com.au/site/baseball/vwbl/downloads/Match%20Conditions%20-%202012%20-%20Final.doc Rule 3. BASEBALL BATS - Seniors: Baseball bats for A Grade, A Reserves, B Grade, B Reserves and C Grade must be wood or wood composite / laminated as approved by the Australian Baseball Federation. Baseball bats for all other grades may be wood or wood composite / laminated, aluminium, ceramic, or carbon graphite in accordance with Australian Baseball Federation Rules. 115 decibels will be the maximum sound emission limit standard for non-wood bats. The maximum allowable weight differential for non wood bats is -3 (difference between length and weight of a bat) (e.g.) a 32” long 28oz bat would be -4 differential then it is not to be used. EXCEPTION: For players 14 & 15 years old - they are permitted to use their junior bats that allow for a -5 differential. NOTE: I also believe that club's are allowed to send individual requests to the league for special consideration if required. During a grand final last winter in the MWBL, i pointed out to both official (and very experienced) umpires that 4/9 of our opposition were using an illegal bat (-5) Neither umpire wanted anything to do with it
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Post by barb05 on May 24, 2012 18:39:12 GMT 10
Kev, I pointed it out to an umpire in summer div 1 3rds finals and got told it was fine. Even though the rules are written otherwise
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Post by eckersley43 on May 24, 2012 22:17:47 GMT 10
I would have thought umpires would be the first in line to ban aluminium bats, for the sake of retaining some hearing! Bye the way, how do you measure 115 decibels?
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Post by MF on May 24, 2012 22:29:52 GMT 10
Kev, I pointed it out to an umpire in summer div 1 3rds finals and got told it was fine. Even though the rules are written otherwise Que? Show me a BV Summer rule that restricts weight/length of non-wooden bats. The BV playing conditions and Australian Baseball Rules (which are both available online) say _nothing_ about weight/length restrictions. Where is this "written rule" you are referring to?
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Post by MF on May 24, 2012 22:34:36 GMT 10
Show me a BV Summer rule that restricts weight/length of non-wooden bats. BTW, I'd personally rather that Summer A3 mandated wooden bats. Blokes like you and Richo simply shouldn't be allowed to swing tin... and you might not give up as many doubles to deep deep right centre ;-).
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Post by shunter on May 26, 2012 17:10:05 GMT 10
Show me a BV Summer rule that restricts weight/length of non-wooden bats. BTW, I'd personally rather that Summer A3 mandated wooden bats. Blokes like you and Richo simply shouldn't be allowed to swing tin... and you might not give up as many doubles to deep deep right centre ;-). I agree I feel wood should come in for all senior levels. Being an ageing so called pitcher some of the younger guys who are having a swing in the lower grades now just hit the ball so hard, not sure if my reflexes or self preservation will save me forever on the come backers.
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Post by easyout on May 26, 2012 17:10:17 GMT 10
I played in a game last season where a young player was told they were not allowed to use their new bat because the umpire said (and this is a direct quote) "I don't like the noise it's making."
Cue the player's parent angrily demanding an explanation considering they'd purchased it from Ausport within the mandated rules on weight/length etc, and as it had hardly been used it certainly wasn't damaged in any way. The umpire refused to justify the decision or enter into a logical conversation about it, the player had to borrow a bat, and then for the rest of the season it was never mentioned again by any other umpires. Maybe he had a hangover and found the noise offensive to his sensitive ears? We'll never know for sure...
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Post by houghy49 on May 26, 2012 17:37:02 GMT 10
I played in a game last season where a young player was told they were not allowed to use their new bat because the umpire said (and this is a direct quote) "I don't like the noise it's making." If that were me I would have kept using it! I'll continue to use my -5 as I'm sure everyone else (that uses something other than -3) will until it's stated somewhere in black and white what the rule is.
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Post by easyout on May 26, 2012 17:52:58 GMT 10
He said if the player got into the box with that bat again he would eject her. Bit harsh for a 15yo but that's how it goes sometimes.
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Post by houghy49 on May 26, 2012 18:03:44 GMT 10
He said if the player got into the box with that bat again he would eject her. Bit harsh for a 15yo but that's how it goes sometimes. Gee that would be a ripper at the tribunal. Reason for report: noisy bat!!!! Would be very interesting indeed! BTW, I'd personally rather that Summer A3 mandated wooden bats. Blokes like you and Richo simply shouldn't be allowed to swing tin... and you might not give up as many doubles to deep deep right centre ;-). I agree I feel wood should come in for all senior levels. Being an ageing so called pitcher some of the younger guys who are having a swing in the lower grades now just hit the ball so hard, not sure if my reflexes or self preservation will save me forever on the come backers. All good and well as a pitcher, but for new comers to the sport, you could never expect them to hit with wood if they've never played in their life! Especially the younger ones.
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Post by MF on May 27, 2012 16:07:36 GMT 10
[...]for new comers to the sport, you could never expect them to hit with wood if they've never played in their life! Especially the younger ones. Sure... for the lower grades where "younger [...] new comers to the sport" are likely to play. Div. 1 Thirds isn't in that bracket.
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Post by MF on May 27, 2012 16:18:16 GMT 10
I played in a game last season where a young player was told they were not allowed to use their new bat because the umpire said (and this is a direct quote) "I don't like the noise it's making." Cue the player's parent angrily demanding an explanation considering they'd purchased it from Ausport within the mandated rules on weight/length etc, and as it had hardly been used it certainly wasn't damaged in any way. The umpire refused to justify the decision or enter into a logical conversation about it, the player had to borrow a bat, and then for the rest of the season it was never mentioned again by any other umpires. Maybe he had a hangover and found the noise offensive to his sensitive ears? We'll never know for sure... The umpire might be justified in this case. The official Australian Baseball rules stipulate: The Bat (a) The bat shall be a smooth, round stick not more than 2.61 inches in diameter at the thickest part and not more than 42 inches in length. The bat may be aluminium, ceramic or carbon graphite, or one solid piece of wood. In accordance with Australian Baseball Rules, 115 decibels will be the sound emission limit standard for non-wooden bats. Now, don't ask me how you determine a bat is louder than 115dB at a game, but certainly it's possible that the bat was not legal. Good luck proving it either way! (See: www.baseball.org.au/site/baseball/abf/downloads/rsources/ABF%20Official%20Australian%20Rules%206th%20Edition%202010_FINALS.pdf.)
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Post by The Puma on May 27, 2012 16:21:41 GMT 10
The skys cleared up just in time for round 1 of the tball comp in Pakky yesterday and all the kids had a ball. Thanks to Chelt and Dandy who also braved the weather.
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Post by oldmanriver on May 28, 2012 13:12:30 GMT 10
The umpires I would assume would be required to carry a noise detector from the EPA to judge the sound of the ping. Just another distraction for our supposed learned adjudicators to worry about apart from trying to get the basics right. Just another line on the umpire cheat sheet.
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Post by jimmyk on May 28, 2012 14:41:13 GMT 10
The umpire might be justified in this case. The official Australian Baseball rules stipulate: The Bat (a) The bat shall be a smooth, round stick not more than 2.61 inches in diameter at the thickest part and not more than 42 inches in length. The bat may be aluminium, ceramic or carbon graphite, or one solid piece of wood. In accordance with Australian Baseball Rules, 115 decibels will be the sound emission limit standard for non-wooden bats. Now, don't ask me how you determine a bat is louder than 115dB at a game, but certainly it's possible that the bat was not legal. Good luck proving it either way! (See: www.baseball.org.au/site/baseball/abf/downloads/rsources/ABF%20Official%20Australian%20Rules%206th%20Edition%202010_FINALS.pdf.) The umpire can tell if its louder than 115dB when the kid throws himself to the ground in fear! A chainsaw is approximately 110dB so unless his bat was twice as loud as that I can't see the problem
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Post by farnt on May 28, 2012 14:44:30 GMT 10
ahhh, brings back fond memories of my old Muzino 'Ping' bat (these were probably the instigator of the original ban)!
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Post by Marshy on May 28, 2012 15:25:18 GMT 10
Not specifically related to the DBA, but on the topic of length/weight ratio, my MWBL club received a formal complaint from another club, that our U15 team were using illegal bats.
Our junior committee went looking for a "legal" bat at Ausball and Ausport, but struggled to find one, despite there being a plethora of junior bats for sale. The team now has ONE bat they can all use.
Whose responsibility is it to ensure the kids are using the right bats?
I think that the retailers must play a part in ensuring that parents are given the correct info when purchasing a bat. That, plus BV making a STANDARD list of rules across all leagues.
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Post by dirtyword on May 28, 2012 16:27:23 GMT 10
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Post by Buzz on May 28, 2012 17:29:05 GMT 10
I've was victim of the length/weight ratio, in a pub, many years ago (before i was married).
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Post by outsider on May 28, 2012 20:11:15 GMT 10
The rules for the sound of a non-wooden bat seems totally unenforceable as to measure the decibels of the bat you need a distance at which the measurement is taken.
Sounds like it's time to dust off the old Easton ping bat in the shed.
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