Aces 2018/19

[player]

Any news on the Melbourne Aces?

Are they playing? Not playing? Do they have a licensee? Do they have any staff working for them?

Their website and social media don't tell us much. Nothing, in fact.

Maybe it is all part of a cunning plan??

[doubleplay]

The plan is so cunning that even it has outdone Baldrick. I suppose no plan is as good as a foolhardy plan.

[stuartcapel]

In fairness gentlemen, when has communication ever been a strength of the Aces organisation?

[baseballnewby]

They did welcome Geelong-Korea on facebook, this will reduce their costs as they effectively have 2 games that don't require flight costs.

[Deleted]

None of us coming on here is likely to have direct knowledge of the machinations of either the Melbourne Aces or the Australian Baseball League generally, although it is an absolutely fair observation that the Aces seem to have no current presence, no particular identity and no effective administrative structure with just 18-20 weeks remaining to Opening Day of the new season.

Of course all of that has to be a worry. And the more time that passes without any substantial news or any proactive engagement with the Victorian baseball community, then the more difficult it will become for the Aces to survive – much less prosper – during the 2018/19 season.

Some of the clubs, maybe all of the clubs, might simply be playing cards close to their chest and not giving anything away just yet while they are regrouping under licence arrangements. Nevertheless, it seems to me a little odd that New Zealand has gone quiet after its gung-ho earlier approach, Perth has still not made an announcement on ownership and even Canberra has adopted a lower profile than we might have expected.

From what I can gather, the Geelong baseball community has embraced the Korean entry – in principle at least – although more will be known when their delegation visits us in August to spell out the club’s requirements and expectations.

Expansion of the league created a degree of excitement and anticipation when it was confirmed by Baseball Australia a few weeks ago. Get on board, we were urged. These are defining times for Australian baseball. But achievement in life and long-term success in any venture are not predicated on “excitement and anticipation” alone. Certainly not on hope, as positive a commodity as that may be.

Genuine commitment, hard work, resilience, imagination, professional competence and ongoing dedication to the tasks are now the key to whether the Australian Baseball League has any prospect of success – and development - in a crowded and ultra-critical Australian sporting market.

I have no idea what has been going on behind the scenes at the various ABL clubs. While I expect, and I hope, that clubs – at least some clubs – are positive, fired-up and setting a solid base for short and longer-term success, the absence of regular, meaningful news, the lack of online vitality, or urgency, and the paucity of any mainstream media engagement by Melbourne Aces is a cause for real concern.

Maybe this situation can be turned around. Let us hope so.

It needs to be sooner rather than later - for later will be too late.

[stuartcapel]

KC I note the following paragraph from your post:

“Genuine commitment, hard work, resilience, imagination, professional competence and ongoing dedication to the tasks are now the key to whether the Australian Baseball League has any prospect of success – and development - in a crowded and ultra-critical Australian sporting market.”

If the website of the Aces is a demonstration of the above, then the club is in significant trouble.

Some examples on a five minute search -

JetCouriers are on board for the 2011-12 season:

web.theabl.com.au/content/page.jsp?ymd=20130628&content_id=52031812&sid=t4067&vkey=team3

Aces Abroad was last updated June 1 2016:

web.theabl.com.au/content/page.jsp?ymd=20150427&content_id=120827724&sid=t4067&vkey=team4

If you want to work with the Aces, among things, you can design the 2014-15 apparel:

web.theabl.com.au/content/page.jsp?ymd=20140329&content_id=70409928&sid=t4067&vkey=team5

In a link that is now not available on the website, the Board of Directors includes the General Manager…Windsor Knox, who left the post in November 2014 (and who is on the Board of Directors currently…is there even such a Board?):

web.theabl.com.au/content/page.jsp?sid=t4067&ymd=20130613&content_id=50469074&vkey=team5

Wouldn’t take much to fix – I reckon two or three baseball people I know of could have that working properly in a short timeframe and make it a vibrant, attractive web page.

[baseballnewby]

My understanding is that BV and the Aces are effectively organized as departments of the same entity. Is that correct?

BV certainly seem to be active, they have plugged the Morwell based School Holiday program, several times, obviously they are keen to get kids there or have no filter for where people are located. A town of 13K, so I suppose they are hoping people travel from the broader region.

MLB junior program @ Altona, BV junior program @ Morwell, Last Summer BV holiday program advertised on BV website is for Jan 2017 @ Altona.

[stuartcapel]

BV may be active, but I'm not sure the Aces have been.

Looking at Facebook, Adelaide and Brisbane have spoken about what the ABL structure and ownership means for their respective franchises:

www.theabl.com.au/news/article.jsp?ymd=20180606&content_id=280010730&fext=.jsp&vkey=news_t4064&sid=t4064

www.theabl.com.au/news/article.jsp?ymd=20180605&content_id=279974424&fext=.jsp&vkey=news_t4065&sid=t4065

Sydney has not completed such an article, but have already given away tickets, other prizes, announced coaching clinics with Bret Saberhaged and Alan thingyrell, clinics with players, are taking feedback on cheaper, more affordable merchandise, and have announced the signing of Jack Murphy to the playing roster.

And the Aces have done…nothing.

I'd say they're showing all the signs of being asleep at the wheel, but is there even a wheel at present? There are certainly crickets.

[baseballnewby]

Aces Facebook page had an update....

For the Morwell clinic school holiday clinic, run by BV.

[Deleted]

A few snippets of news coming out of New Zealand, including the signings of Daniel Lamb-Hunt and former Major Leaguer Josh Collmenter, although the lack of confirmation of a playing venue over there would likely account for an ABL schedule not being available by now.

While we can expect, and we should reasonably assume that all clubs are working hard behind the scenes in preparation for the new season (something drastically amiss if they are not), the lack of news coming out of several clubs is troubling.

These should be exciting times, with the ABL entering a new phase and with two new teams having entered. But it is almost like the big announcements a few weeks back were an end in themselves - rather than the beginning of another beginning.

Do we know yet who will hold the licence for Perth Heat? Is there any progress in that regard with Melbourne Aces? Is it true that the Aces will be underwritten by BA and BV at least for the upcoming season? And if so, who will be running the show? Why has a Team Manager not been announced at Melbourne Aces by now, when we know that interviews were being conducted weeks ago?

What of the Korean team? Does it have a financial stake in the league, or is it - as rumoured - being largely supported by Baseball Australia? While there is no shame in that indeed being the case, how about the ABL starts informing people of what is going on (within the bounds of reasonable commercial sensibilities)? Is it true that the Korean team will be basically comprised of older guys at the end of their careers? Will there be any requirement that they help promote and develop the game in Geelong and Victoria more broadly?

With a large number of imports expected to be allowed at each club, will the ABL be genuinely honouring its early commitment to function as a development league, with the long-term interests of Australian baseball as a key focus?

So many questions. So many imponderables, and so many unknowns at this stage. That is not the scenario that helps build anticipation, enthusiasm and memberships.

Since its reincarnation, the ABL has been known for its propensity to be taciturn - some might say secretive - about what is actually going on. It has often been suggested, with good reason, that maybe the organisation should employ hard-headed marketing and no-bulldust communications people who actually have a clue about how their existing and potential support base should be treated.

It is now just four months until Opening Day. Some clubs appear to be firing up, and possibly doing great. But from any ousider's perspective, there is nothing much to get excited about.

[Deleted]

Sick of engaging with this issue, when we all have better and more constructive things to do. But some things need to be said.

While I have never been any wrap for the ABL Fans page, it is out there and it is drawing comment - in some cases from genuinely concerned people with an interest in betterment of the sport.

Anyone who has read the ABL Fans page over the last few days would have spotted the lively interchange, the occasionally more creative, the critical and often nasty comments about the plight of Melbourne Aces. Even though some comments are misguided or ill-informed, discussions cannot be ignored, since they are coming from a former, an existing or a potential supporter base.

Compare that, say, with generally positive and upbeat online activity involving the Bandits, Cavalry, Bite and Blue Sox in particular and it is clear that the Aces club - in our second most populous city - is dragging the chain.

It is a safe bet that people at the Aces, and Baseball Victoria, and Baseball Australia, and the ABL, and Ben Foster have seen the fans' comments and have noted the overwhelming negativity that is being generated. A phenomenon that feeds upon itself, negativity will become the all-consuming norm if allowed free rein.

Some of those people - people employed in and by Australian baseball - still come here. Their antagonism towards me, my comments, and to this forum more generally will no doubt be further reinforced. Well, bad luck.

Why can’t the Aces or anyone with any responsibility around the Aces get on the front foot, for crissakes, and say something, anything, about what is planned, about who will be doing what? About the works going on at Altona? About any potential relocation down the track? Even if just to concede that there are problems and challenges that the club is trying to work through?

Doing, or at least saying nothing at a crucial time for ABL growth is not an option. It is unacceptable, it is negligent and it is doing serious, probably irreparable damage to Victorian baseball and to the prospect of having a strong national league into the future.

It is hurting everyone who has a vested interest in the sport in this state.

[baseballnewby]

KC,

Thanks for the update.

Aces revenue was $110K
Aces costs was $138K
BV gave Aces $27 to meet the shortfall

Good chance is they just don't have the funds to do anything.

[enricopalazzo]

The aces are a victim of their own arrogance and incompetence.

CMON THE KOREANS!!!!
Cant wait to drive past Failtona on the way to Geelong.

[doubleplay]

Newby, I love the info you seem to have. As a tax paying member of Baseball Victoria, I don't remember being told that we are to prop up the Aces with funds that should have gone back into grassroots baseball in Victoria or at least pay extra for an administrator that knows what te hell is going on. I am very disappointed to learn this and will raise some questions through the right channels and will expect a bulldust answer.
And Enrico, just keep driving, don't stop at Geelong, just keep going.

[enricopalazzo]

Whats after Geelong?
Petrol is expensive after Geelong so i might have to turn back.

[baseballnewby]

Jul 27, 2018 8:41:12 GMT 10 doubleplay said:

Newby, I love the info you seem to have. As a tax paying member of Baseball Victoria, I don't remember being told that we are to prop up the Aces with funds that should have gone back into grassroots baseball in Victoria or at least pay extra for an administrator that knows what te hell is going on. I am very disappointed to learn this and will raise some questions through the right channels and will expect a bulldust answer.
And Enrico, just keep driving, don't stop at Geelong, just keep going.

No mystery it was in the BV annual report for 2016/2017 page 49.

baseballvictoria.com.au/Portals/34/Joanna/Annual_Report_web.pdf

I presume the next report will be this September, but from the crowd attendance numbers for last season it is difficult to imagine the Aces revenue being lifted significantly, maybe they have dropped expenditure, which is why we haven't heard from them.

I have no problem with the Aces being supported in the short term, as long as they are honest about the situation. Come out and explain how they are going to make Altona and Geelong work. Issue is that if the admit to looking for a new home in the east, it will burn their current small western sponsor and supporter base without immediately increasing crowds in Altona with fans from the east. There is no other stadium capable of hosting the Aces anywhere else except for Geelong (and that is now taken).

BV doesn't have the money to build a new stadium and as KC has pointed out, no government will build a new stadium due to their perception that Altona isn't drawing crowds. Of course we could point out that the Reds got 14K to a single match at Waverley park (about what the Aces get in a year) but there is just no single organization to make that point to government. BV is locked into Altona, MWBL and Dandenong divide the eastern winter sides into separate comps.

 I'm new to baseball but from my perspective EastLink (& Peninsula Link ) means there is a fast freeway connecting us to the Dandenong area but North and West involve winding battles through back streets. A combined Dandenong and Ringwood league could make the case for an eastern stadium and then lure the Aces to it.

[Deleted]

Another great contribution, newby. Thank you.

Attendances continue to be an issue in the revamped ABL and they show a consistent overall decline since 2010 according to figures held by MiLB.

www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?y=2017&sid=milb&t=l_att&lid=595

While we can debate the factors contributing to that trend, the numbers seem largely to relate to perceived success or otherwise of any club at any given time. For instance, Perth Heat, Brisbane and Canberra Cavalry have led attendance numbers in various years, whereas the Aces and Blue Sox - both in less than perfect locations in the largest cities - have struggled.

When the new league started up, a figure of 1500 was bandied around by ABL as being the "break even" attendance for every game. That does not happen often, and it is still a far cry from the average of 2500 per game that was being optimistically predicted by league administrators in the early days.

So it is fair to say that attendances pose an ongoing, serious challenge. While we hope that the entry of new teams, the licensing arrangements and more creative marketing might make a difference, we should be wary about making comparisons with the original ABL - which functioned in a quite different social and sporting environment and still went broke.

We should not get carried away by anecdotes around attendance figures in the old league - some of which are really just wishful thinking. Rewriting history, if you like. Yes, there was a night at Waverley that drew something between 11,000 and 14,000 people, but it was a one-off. It was an occasion, a freebie, that was entirely sponsored by the RACV as I recall. There was a similarly underwritten game in Brisbane that drew several thousand.

Especially in its later years, the old ABL struggled to draw consistent crowds - which of course contributed materially to its demise. Towards the end, the Monarchs at Altona were drawing as few as 400 people to a game. While their situation may have been the worst in that regard (and was probably related to negative perceptions about the venue), it was a self-evident problem across the league.

We need to be hopeful that the new teams and the new licence arrangements will in time help turn things around for the ABL, so that it may be able to develop a stronger presence in the sporting landscape - and thereby build a case to be better resourced.

What seriously concerns me about Melbourne Aces (among other things) has been the club's failure to engage the broader Victorian baseball community. It is not entirely their own fault. Grassroots club people - especially summer club administrators, coaches, players and supporters - are already working their butts off and I expect simply do not have the available time to support the Aces club even if they would like to.

I know there are exceptions to that, but it is a phenomenon I have noticed over the past decade of attending Aces games and following the league online. There are generations of dyed in the wool baseball people who you rarely ever see at games or hear from about the ABL - because they are quite properly dedicating their attentions to their own clubs and leagues.

[baseballnewby]

KC,

Clearly success does have some impact in support for a team. (Numbers at Richmond games currently clearly show the correlation.) However the Aces had a good season last year and the numbers didn't respond, maybe it takes a flag.

I will note that the former Aces staffer's on the ABL fans page had a strong statement that it was not from existing baseball people but from new convert fans that you would build numbers at Aces games. That she was upset by the lack of funds in advertising but it appears her previous role was recruiting new corporate sponsors/attendees, so I'm not sure if that reflected broad ACES management view or her own skew on things.

I was surprised at how small the ACES budget was and the new conference system with effectively around 60% home or near home games. (ie no flights or accommodation required for Geelong-Korea games) should trim that even further.

[enricopalazzo]

Whats the latest with the upgrades to waurn ponds ball park?

[Deleted]

There has been some talk about upgrades to playing surfaces, to fencing and to extension of clubrooms over time (IE over the five season Korean contract).

Victorian government and City of Greater Geelong have apparently pledged significant resourcing, which is likely to include extra COGG staffing on maintenance of the complex for this season.

More may be known after the Korean visit during the next fortnight.

Maybe someone from BV, BA, Melbourne Aces or ABL sneaking a read of the much-maligned Forum might like to report on the substantial works that are being done at Altona. If they can be bothered....or if they are telling...

If they have noticed, or care....

[russelledwards]

Just letting everyone know I am still alive - I'm sure some at Baseball Victoria have probably been concerned by my absence from the Forum!
The ABL released details of the Salary Cap for the upcoming Season this week confirming it will be $100,000. I believe it was $40K last Season.
Be interesting to see how The Aces Ownership (Baseball Victoria) can fund the new cap.

[baseballnewby]

Thanks russelledwards,

Do you know if the coaching cost come out of the cap?

Although a cap is a maximum and you can spend less, spending less would usually mean a less competitive team, which would be less attractive to crowds and this would decrease revenue.

$110K revenue in 16/17, so a $100K salary camp would mean a lot more support from BV. Although since their budget is closer to an $1m they do have some scope.

[regg44]

Aug 3, 2018 6:19:56 GMT 10 baseballnewby said:

Thanks russelledwards,

Do you know if the coaching cost come out of the cap?

Although a cap is a maximum and you can spend less, spending less would usually mean a less competitive team, which would be less attractive to crowds and this would decrease revenue.

$110K revenue in 16/17, so a $100K salary camp would mean a lot more support from BV. Although since their budget is closer to an $1m they do have some scope.

Newby can you expand on the $1m budget you refer to? Is that BV's total budget or their budget to prop up Aces?

[russelledwards]

Aug 3, 2018 6:19:56 GMT 10 baseballnewby said:

Thanks russelledwards,

Do you know if the coaching cost come out of the cap?

Although a cap is a maximum and you can spend less, spending less would usually mean a less competitive team, which would be less attractive to crowds and this would decrease revenue.

$110K revenue in 16/17, so a $100K salary camp would mean a lot more support from BV. Although since their budget is closer to an $1m they do have some scope.

The Salary Cap applies to Players only.

[baseballnewby]

Aug 3, 2018 9:03:47 GMT 10 regg44 said:

Aug 3, 2018 6:19:56 GMT 10 baseballnewby said:

Newby can you expand on the $1m budget you refer to? Is that BV's total budget or their budget to prop up Aces?

If you go to link higher up in the thread it has the BV budget at the page referenced.
It is around $1M total, profit is also listed there.
It will be interesting what the numbers are for 2017-2018 year.

[stuartcapel]

Unless some information comes out after regular business hours this evening (Thursday), members and fans of the Melbourne Aces, and the general Victorian baseball public are still unawares as to anything about the club this season, aside from the competition schedule, which in itself, was significantly delayed in its release.

Four times over the past ten days, the club has posted links to purchase coming seasons memberships on four occasions, not a gross or unfair amount of posts, indeed they should be posting such links regularly. To expect people to race to outlay money when the club steadfastly refuses to release the name or names of any potential owner, a field manager, a coaching panel or as little as the name of one player for the coming season, is however somewhat far fetched.

With less than 100 days to go before the commencement of the ABL season, to know nothing about the team aside from the fixture - I'm trying to think of another team in another sport in this country like it and cannot come up with one.

What's the big secret?

How about some information?

You never know, it may lead to some clicks on that membership link that keeps getting posted!

[doubleplay]

Just read the paper and things are afoot. At long last a man with passion and plans to revamp the tired Aces. This will be exciting with fresh ideas and a man with passion. Bye Bye Altona maybe soon.
But at least some media coverage.

[lonewolf75]

dont suppose there is a hyperlink to the article that you could throw up??

[enricopalazzo]

Aug 15, 2018 7:06:35 GMT 10 doubleplay said:

Bye Altona maybe soon.

'Failtona'

Wouldn't be hard to do better than BV

CMON KOREA_GEELONG!!

[baseballnewby]

BV has put out a release. Good news for Aces.

Interesting listening to Simon Sullka, certainly talks the talk.
From the BV site, quoting Sullka, "providing a venue that is local, sort of city based", "that is an easy journey", "accessible", "with wonderful setting of city skyline". This in BV world all describes Altona, so no real word about any venue change. It would appear BV are going to cover this year financially and the new people from next year.

But can someone help me here, who is FS Entertainment. There is web site for UK and Pakistan but nothing for Australia. clearly not a company that is big in web presence.

Simon Sallka is listed as co founder, Exec Chairman and CIO of First Guardian Capital. His linkedin profile links him to FGC but not FS Entertainment. The guy appears to have business experience and has been board member of several other companies.

Anyway good luck toSimon and the Aces.