Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2016 14:27:50 GMT 10
While the lower grades are into finals mode, there still seems to be very much riding on what is happening, or is going to happen in Division One Firsts and Division Two.
This matter has been raised on other social media forums and it really does need to be clarified before this weekend's games.
Sunshine and Doncaster are both in contention for relegation. They meet on equal winning percentage this week, with a win for either putting it ahead of the other.
Moorabbin is the Division Two minor premier and would be promoted under past processes IF the club meets BV criteria. Does it, do we know? If the premier turns out to be a club other than Moorabbin, then two clubs could potentially be promoted if they meet the criteria. DO the others meet the criteria?
Two clubs might be promoted, one might be promoted. Maybe none.
These are vital and fundamental considerations for clubs in both divisions.
What precisely IS the situation? Does anyone know? Does Baseball Victoria know? Is it just not telling?
Best wishes to all teams who have qualified for their finals series!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2016 14:36:20 GMT 10
Any insights?
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Post by Goblin on Feb 19, 2016 15:42:20 GMT 10
While the lower grades are into finals mode, there still seems to very much riding on what is happening, or is going to happen in Division One Firsts and Division Two. This matter has been raised on other social media forums and it really does need to be clarified before this weekend's games. Sunshine and Doncaster are both in contention for relegation. They meet on equal winning percentage this week, with a win for either putting it ahead of the other. Moorabbin is the Division Two minor premier and would be promoted under past processes IF the club meets BV criteria. Does it, do we know? If the premier turns out to be a club other than Moorabbin, then two clubs could potentially be promoted if they meet the criteria. DO the others meet the criteria? Two clubs might be promoted, one might be promoted. Maybe none. These are vital and fundamental considerations for clubs in both divisions. What precisely IS the situation? Does anyone know? Does Baseball Victoria know? Is it just not telling? Best wishes to all teams who have qualified for their finals series! Having a quick look at the criteria rules for a team to be promoted. It does mention that a club needs a number of junior sides AND 1 MUST BE AN U18 or U16 team. From what I can see neither Moorabbin or Werribee has an U18 or U16 team. (from what I can see) (i'm happy to be proved wrong) If that is the case neither would be eligible. The 3rd and 4th teams, Fitzroy and Upwey do have an U18 or U16s. Not sure how many other Junior sides they actually as their is to many different comps to wade thru. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2016 16:07:36 GMT 10
Under current guidelines, neither Doncaster nor Sunshine should be too concerned, then, unless Fitzroy or Upwey becomes eligible.
There is also the matter of a Promotion/Relegation review that has either been done, is in the process of being done, or has gone missing.
I seem to recall sometime during last summer that a review of the criteria was proposed as a matter of some urgency. If it has been completed, it would be handy for clubs to know of the outcome or of any recommendations.
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Post by sueridgepipe1 on Feb 19, 2016 17:40:23 GMT 10
moorabbin baseball club will be in division 1 next year.
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Post by pirates on Feb 19, 2016 20:27:49 GMT 10
So is the junior critera being ignored
and if why.
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Post by sueridgepipe1 on Feb 19, 2016 22:13:22 GMT 10
the junior criteria has been thrown out the door becaus eof the new charters. for at least two years while they trial it.
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Post by fuzzy on Feb 20, 2016 9:01:04 GMT 10
Common sense would be after 2 years of the Charter system you then look at the junior criteria if required.
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coyote
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Post by coyote on Feb 20, 2016 10:59:02 GMT 10
Common sense would be after 2 years of the Charter system you then look at the junior criteria if required. "Common sense" may not be so common at BV Fuzzy..... |
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uptech
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Post by uptech on Feb 20, 2016 11:20:51 GMT 10
Yes, but doesn't the 2015/16 season playing conditions apply as agreed to by all clubs at the beginning of the season ?
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Post by wyatt33 on Feb 20, 2016 13:30:40 GMT 10
Sue....great to have you back! Been a while....
As for the criteria....I don't reckon bv know wtf is going on. I thought there was a moratorium on junior criteria, as it's clearly an issue even for some first division clubs. Throw in the charter system, how the he'll do you know if a team qualifies or not. As a club that has missed out on promotion in the past due to not reaching the leagues requirements, it's painful to have such quality only to see it not rewarded because of circumstances that we can't always control.
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Post by masters on Feb 20, 2016 18:49:21 GMT 10
So who is in Cheltenham or Blackburn finals fixture has Blackburn but Cheltenham has better win %
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Post by fuzzy on Feb 20, 2016 19:01:50 GMT 10
Wyatt that's the point, the quality of your senior team is irrelevant, it's the depth of your club that is relevant to baseball. Lets imagine no junior criteria, what would BV look like, the clubs that realize the only path to sustained success is a good junior program combined with quality coaching and they will have sustained success or buy a few players win Div 2 maybe even win Div 1, without a good junior program your club will turn to crap very quickly.
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Post by baseless on Feb 20, 2016 19:12:29 GMT 10
Why are there no Div 1 firsts results or standings on BV page?
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uptech
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Post by uptech on Feb 20, 2016 19:44:20 GMT 10
Agreed fuzzy !! if you troll through the BV fixtures you will find that both w'bee & m'bin only field 3 & 2 charter teams in the junior comp, no other teams appear in the fixtures. Is it fair to the next two teams, UFTG & F'roy who have worked hard ,not to be given the opportunity to advance. Not so IMHO.
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Post by fuzzy on Feb 20, 2016 19:45:01 GMT 10
Royals 2-0 over Melb. Not a lot to play for, but 2 hits won't get it done in the playoffs.
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bill
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Post by bill on Feb 20, 2016 20:37:08 GMT 10
Uptech I don't think your numbers are right. There are several "divisions" in the Charters.
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Post by baseless on Feb 20, 2016 21:35:44 GMT 10
uptech, are you saying you believe that teams that finish 3rd and 4th in 2nd Div deserve promotion to Div 1 ?
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Post by panther on Feb 20, 2016 21:39:01 GMT 10
A memo was sent out last week reporting that all clubs were to be judged on junior criteria on a case by case basis.
At this stage, as far as I know, Moorabbin has met BVs criteria and will be moving up to division one next year.
Fuzzy whilst your points are valid and true, isn't it in the clubs best interest to have juniors? Why not have the strongest D1 competition available. If a club can't replenish their numbers and bolster and strengthen their lower grades with juniors, than eventually they'll unravel.
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Post by mackem on Feb 20, 2016 21:41:23 GMT 10
Uptech I don't think your numbers are right. There are several "divisions" in the Charters. I think you will find that the 16's & 18's are not included in the charters at present. |
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Post by mackem on Feb 20, 2016 21:46:56 GMT 10
This is the memo the clubs received about junior criteria
Dear All,
This memo is to clarify any confusion around the junior criteria for this season. At a P&S meeting it was stated that there would be a moratorium on the junior criteria for the next two years. This statement was incorrect and was clarified in a release on 18 September 2015.
This release also stated that the opportunity to review specific circumstances of clubs continues to apply.
We acknowledge that with the introduction of the junior league age group and the changes to the age criteria, it can be challenging to meet the junior criteria. Baseball Victoria has communicated that it will review each individual circumstance and consider providing dispensation if the applicant can demonstrate that there has been an increase to junior participation numbers or that the change in age criteria has impacted them forming a team in another age group.
Baseball Victoria staff have commenced auditing junior team entries for the 2015/2016 season. However, I encourage clubs that fall under the above category to write to Baseball Victoria and request a review and dispensation.
In reviewing, BV will take into consideration the following:
1. Can demonstrate an increase in junior numbers
2. Have met parts of the junior criteria
3. Number of previous eligible U16 players playing in another age group
4. Performance of all senior teams from that club
The senior criteria of number of teams required still applies. Dispensation can only be sought on the junior criteria.
If you have any remaining questions, please feel free to contact the Baseball Victoria office to clarify.
Kind Regards,
Jessica Sneath
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Post by uptech2 on Feb 20, 2016 23:02:03 GMT 10
Baseless, No !! i'm saying that why should participants in an agreed competition be shown some sort of freedom from the agreed playing conditions when other participants in the same competition work hard to agree to them. i'm not saying that the clubs mentioned do not try hard, but IMO I'm sure that others have been working at meeting the criteria for quite a long time. Yes I understand that times change and population changes may provide difficulties, but we need to keep working hard to advance our sport if it is to survive.
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Post by The Puma on Feb 21, 2016 6:57:43 GMT 10
I can see why clubs would be given dispensation to stay in a division having not met the criteria but to go up?
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Post by wyatt33 on Feb 21, 2016 7:13:01 GMT 10
I'm not saying clubs shouldn't have juniors, because it's clear that if you don't try and have juniors your going to struggle long term. But why should that stop a team being promoted due to, like I said, circumstance beyond the clubs control. I'm not going to get into it, but I can guarantee the problems that teams like mulgrave(dandy) port melbourne and stkilda face are completely different to what happens at Berwick werribee upwey etc! I'm not a dullard, and I accept that good juniors sometimes equates to good seniors, but not always. And I also don't accept that thread tha, just because you've got more juniors than another team, your working harder than that other team! That's bs! There are different circumstances that each team faces.....I'm not going into it here because we've got finals to worry about but I'll stick to my guns! Juniors shouldn't predicate where a senior club sits in the scheme of things....it's crazy. Look at balwyn on the EFL!
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Post by doubleplay on Feb 21, 2016 8:50:29 GMT 10
Here's my two cents worth. It has been a longtime bug bear of mine that Junior criteria was made in ridiculous proportion. It was designed originally IMO by the clubs that were already in Div 1 to make safe their standings. Of course Div 2 clubs are going to struggle to get the numbers when the Div 1 clubs recruit the eyes out all other junior teams in the past by pissing in the kids and parents pockets. The big only got bigger. Now with the charters there is no real need to have a junior criteria as such as these charters apparently are to be the end of all priorities. It has long been the view that this Junior Criteria in the past held back Clubs from being part of the so called best baseball in Victoria. Don't get me wrong, I believe in a junior program, but you can only play what you have and as long as the program continues to grow the club will grow as well.
Moorabbin and Werribee will go up and Doncaster and Sunshine will come down.
Also Bonbeach beat Williamstown 8-3 in a fun game giving the Bluejays 10 wins for the season. Well done to Matty and the boys on a major improvement from last season.
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Post by mackem on Feb 21, 2016 9:58:24 GMT 10
Bonbeach beat Williamstown 8-3 in a fun game giving the Bluejays 10 wins for the season. Well done to Matty and the boys on a major improvement from last season. Williamstown decide to change every fielding position every innings which may have been fun for the players but a nightmare for the scorers especially for the Williamstown scorer working out the stats for fielding, pitching & catching. |
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Post by mackem on Feb 21, 2016 10:04:33 GMT 10
Here's my two cents worth. It has been a longtime bug bear of mine that Junior criteria was made in ridiculous proportion. It was designed originally IMO by the clubs that were already in Div 1 to make safe their standings. Of course Div 2 clubs are going to struggle to get the numbers when the Div 1 clubs recruit the eyes out all other junior teams in the past by pissing in the kids and parents pockets. The big only got bigger. Now with the charters there is no real need to have a junior criteria as such as these charters apparently are to be the end of all priorities. It has long been the view that this Junior Criteria in the past held back Clubs from being part of the so called best baseball in Victoria. Don't get me wrong, I believe in a junior program, but you can only play what you have and as long as the program continues to grow the club will grow as well. Moorabbin and Werribee will go up and Doncaster and Sunshine will come down. Also Bonbeach beat Williamstown 8-3 in a fun game giving the Bluejays 10 wins for the season. Well done to Matty and the boys on a major improvement from last season. I can't see how you say Werribee will go up because at present they will need to win the grand final. Moorabbin will go up if they met the junior criteria because they are the minor premiers. Only the minor premiers and grand final winners can go up. |
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Post by perfeckt on Feb 21, 2016 14:25:09 GMT 10
So who is in Cheltenham or Blackburn finals fixture has Blackburn but Cheltenham has better win % Blackburn are done and dusted for this year. Cheltenham Rustlers are playing finals. |
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beaverball
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hey fungo im sandra dee
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Post by beaverball on Feb 21, 2016 19:16:04 GMT 10
Hey Perfeckt
Where have u been.
Not stuck under a crate of Bintang.
All looking forward to your insight to the upcoming finals where the games will be won and lost.
Cheers...... Beaver
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2016 19:43:45 GMT 10
Where's perfeckt BIN? Jus' TANGing around.....  But yes, I share your anticipation, beaverball. His previews are always a treat. |
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