|
Post by nicko1469 on Mar 11, 2013 10:06:07 GMT 10
Just want some thoughts. Is it ok or not ok to steal bases when 10 runs up in a final.
REMEMBER THE TITAN
|
|
|
Post by Journeyman on Mar 11, 2013 10:47:19 GMT 10
Is it ok or not ok to steal bases when 10 runs up in a final. According to the "Unwritten rules of Baseball" 7. Don't steal when you're well ahead. Whether it's a final or not. Although Whitey Herzog manager of KC Royals, California Angels and St Louis Cardinals said in his book "The White Rat" and I quote " If you stop trying to win, we will stop stealing" so there is another take on it. Although he was talking about MLB when he spoke.
|
|
|
Post by The Puma on Mar 11, 2013 10:58:55 GMT 10
Only 6 runs if your Mexican.
|
|
|
Post by nicko1469 on Mar 11, 2013 11:29:26 GMT 10
So would you classify running on a pass ball a steal.
|
|
|
Post by Journeyman on Mar 11, 2013 11:39:06 GMT 10
That doesn't qualify as a steal in my book, not sure how others feel.
|
|
|
Post by MF on Mar 11, 2013 12:01:33 GMT 10
So would you classify running on a pass ball a steal. No. Passed balls, wild pitches, over throws - go for it. Straight steals & bunts - not okay. But the definition of "up by a lot" varies depending on the grade. 1s & 2s - six runs, say. Lower grades - ten runs. Opinions vary when it comes to finals.
|
|
|
Post by lovethegame on Mar 11, 2013 12:59:06 GMT 10
What if you are up by 9 and need 1 more run to win by ten run rule in a final. I say go for it.
|
|
willo
Junior Member
Posts: 31
|
Post by willo on Mar 11, 2013 13:26:50 GMT 10
youve been around baseball long enough, Nicko you already know the answer to this question. Stop looking for validation on the forum to ease your own guilt. Also the fact you guys did it to Fitroys 2nd 4th division team (they didnt win a game from memory) shows how unscrupulous you blokes are.
|
|
|
Post by The Puma on Mar 11, 2013 14:10:00 GMT 10
Willo, Wernt you a Titan this season? I'm sure I sent you a PM about uniforms?
|
|
|
Post by nicko1469 on Mar 11, 2013 14:27:01 GMT 10
Haha. Willo. You make me laugh. I am wanting others thoughts. We did not steal when we where ten runs up uless we did not realise that the ten run had passed. Yes I have been around baseball for a long time but there is nothing wtong with abit of clarification. Willo seriously would like to no why u even bother to stay on this forum wheb clearly u dont really care for the game. So just walk away AGAIN and go back to cricket where u prob dont even belong
|
|
hank
Junior Member
Posts: 29
|
Post by hank on Mar 11, 2013 15:42:56 GMT 10
What if you are up by 9 and need 1 more run to win by ten run rule in a final. I say go for it. I'd say in this situation, the coach would communicate to the other coach before the game that they needed as many runs as possible for that spot in the finals. Something like, we mean no disrespect - so if this occurs, can you please relay this to your team so all knows what is going on. It may not necessarily be before the game but during it, say as they approach this situation around the mid point of the game??. Coaches (sometimes) can communicate a lot and this is an important part of club baseball IMO. If you have the opinion of go for it without giving a stuff for your opposition, look out as this is completely wrong. Also, not taking a base on a pass ball has been described on here in the past as disrespectful, I don't share that view as passionately, however you should take that base as it can also keep the game ticking over to get that inevitable result sooner.
|
|
|
Post by MF on Mar 11, 2013 21:14:29 GMT 10
I'd say in this situation, the coach would communicate to the other coach before the game that they needed as many runs as possible for that spot in the finals. No longer true. Total runs for no longer count, even for tie-breaking teams on the same points - it's all about head-to-head results, then runs against the top teams in order, etc. There is no longer any justification for a strong team to run up the score against a weak team. Edit: See section 42 "Determining Ladder and Play-off Positions" of the Senior BV Playing Conditions at: www.vicsummerleague.baseball.com.au/site/baseball/vicsummerleague/downloads/2012%20Playing%20Conditions/Section%202%2020120924.pdfBasically, runs-for no longer matter, other than as part of a head-to-head comparsion of two tied teams. (Masters is the same.)
|
|
willo
Junior Member
Posts: 31
|
Post by willo on Mar 11, 2013 21:48:08 GMT 10
Puma, yeah I was the ORIGINAL Titan and had it vandalized by the likes of Nicko and the rest of the former Melton Mustangs. They say "we are the titans" not the Mustangs. The vast majority at the titans these days are former Mustangs players. Lets be honest Nicko the only reason I walked away was because I couldnt have your rego torn up after you went behind everyones back, spoke to a supplier I had built up a repoire with, Lied to the supplier and said you were on the committee, and went and ordered $700 worth of flex fit caps-with club finances of course!! Your mates on the committee voted against it. That was the straw that broke the camels back. Despite the fact I was feeling like an outsider at a club I worked 12 months to set up and get going with very little help from anyone else, once the former mustangs got the numbers it was an attitude of "we will do what we like."
You blokes drove people away from the club and took yas what? less than half a season to **** it up? The team name might have changed but the culture is firmly implanted down there at Melton.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2013 0:34:59 GMT 10
FYI for those interested, the so-called 10-run rule was 'broken' 4 times in the game in question by the Nth/West Titans, actually by two specific blokes, the #1 and the #9 hitters.
The first two times were perhaps understandable to a point where the game drifted into the 10>12 runs up region, the 3rd time was maybe just the #9 hitter getting all excited about getting on again BUT when TIME was called and the score was clearly yelled out to all as 15-4 late in the game and then THE NEXT PITCH the #1 hitter steals again (whilst being held-on as they all were by our first baseman) well we were not so happy albeit we sucked it up and hung around for a drink afterwards.
End score 17-4 I think - they were much too good for us on the day but I was proud of our boys who are a 5ths team battling a pretty solid 1's team in Div 4.
|
|
|
Post by nicko1469 on Mar 12, 2013 7:37:41 GMT 10
Wow. Willo. Seriously you are so far up ur own a***.. There are only 4 melton mustangs that play for the titans out of 20 so not sure how that is a majority. There where 10 plus people that heard you say if i can source the hats then go for it get em i dont have time. Im not sure how we have f###ed things up pretty sure we are playing a grand final on sunday and by the end of the week will be debt free. You said you wanted help to run the club when u got it you disnt like it cause u were not fully in control. The culture is what people make it. Sorry that having fun and staying back for a drink or two. We never pushed anyone away u walked and took your family and friends who are still not financial. Seriously mate you made the club but u are not and never where a titan. We all love the game and the club and we are here to stay. You guys tried to ruin the club in the end but trust me u didnt. We are bigger and stronger than ever. Would also like to invite you to the club on sunday to watch the titans play in the gf and see how this club has grown since u left.
I appoligise to fitzroy if your comments are true. We try not to steal if we no we are up by that much but we have a lot of new guys that prob arnt aware of the gentalmans rule.
All this post was ment to do was get a bit of clarification for finals. Sorry you all had to listen to troys bs.
|
|
|
Post by oldmanriver on Mar 12, 2013 8:37:46 GMT 10
I am glad to see that dirty washing day is nearly over. Last time I played at Melton the beer was warm. Sounds like a few chill pills are required both in the fridge and between people.
|
|
|
Post by nicko1469 on Mar 12, 2013 8:53:40 GMT 10
I am glad to see that dirty washing day is nearly over. . Last time I played at Melton the beer was warm. Sounds like a few chill pills are required both in the fridge and between people. When was the last time you played at melton oldmanriver. Belive me my friend beers are cold and plenty of it. Sorry about all the crap. Just passionate.
|
|
|
Post by pirates on Mar 12, 2013 9:11:43 GMT 10
just a quick question, did the old club(Melton) pay up what was outstanding to the league and why were you allowed to play these finals if your new club are not financial. if some of the players are now playing for the new club then shouldn't they be made to pay their outstanding fees from their old club. I remember there was a rule you could not be registered at other clubs until you cleared you past debts. Ask the Coburg boys when the players faced bans, of up to 2 years from memory, for unpaid clubs fees.
|
|
|
Post by Goblin on Mar 12, 2013 10:42:33 GMT 10
just a quick question, did the old club(Melton) pay up what was outstanding to the league and why were you allowed to play these finals if your new club are not financial. if some of the players are now playing for the new club then shouldn't they be made to pay their outstanding fees from their old club. I remember there was a rule you could not be registered at other clubs until you cleared you past debts. Ask the Coburg boys when the players faced bans, of up to 2 years from memory, for unpaid clubs fees. I have to agree with Pirates here. If you were in debt to BV at the end of the home and away the rules state that you would be ineligible to play finals. In your own words you said "you will be debt free by the end of the week". Are you referring to monies owed to BV or is it to someone else. Whilst most clubs sail close to the winds, when it comes to seasons home and away end, all BV debts need to be paid. Have BV given special dispensation to play ? Not making any judgements just stating what BV's normal policy.
|
|
|
Post by northwesternjeff on Mar 12, 2013 12:04:34 GMT 10
Firstly I would like to introduce myself as i am new to the forums ... A lot of people in the baseball world will know me from Newport Rams .. Footscray Bulldogs and now the North Western Titans .. My Name is Jeff Ostler .. and i am now the President down at the Titans
Firstly i would like to thank (willo) .. Troy Wilson .. You did what a lot of people on these forums and in the baseball community have not done .. You started a baseball team .. You started a brand new team which by default had to use the ground once used by the now defunct Melton Mustangs ... Of course you were going to get a few old players show up from that club.. Baseballl is a minority sport here and you were lucky enough to get some great talent down to a brand new team .. A brand new team that has gone undefeated all the way to the Grand final (yes melbourne did draw one game.. technically not a defeat) But instead of embracing the success the titans were enjoying, you choose to argue over stupid little details and ultimately you walked away .. The guys left behind were left with the task of salvaging the season and the CLUB
To Pirates .. The Titans players that were from the Mustangs served there suspensions and BV are well aware of who we have registed and have no issues .. Melton's debts are not Titans business .. a few faces and a ground is all we share
To Goblin .. As an admin I'm sure you are aware that the financial situation between the North Western Titans and Baseball Victoria is not something that should be discussed in this manner
if anyone would like to talk to me ,I'm always available and open to talk about anything to do with the Titans on the field or off the field .. our committee is transparent Club finances are not the concern of anyone outside of Baseball Victoria and the North Western Titans We have nothing to hide gentlemen .. we are not a rehashed Mustangs .. we are a Team in Melton.. I'm a little disappointed we are coping the flak of a defunct club and not being congratulated on a successful inaugural season, and can't help but wonder if the same questions would be asked about our finances if we weren't so successful ... Jeff Ostler 0425620920
|
|
|
Post by Goblin on Mar 12, 2013 12:23:23 GMT 10
To Goblin .. As an admin I'm sure you are aware that the financial situation between the North Western Titans and Baseball Victoria is not something that should be discussed in this manner As I stated, I'm making no judgement. It is was your member "niko1469" who raised the matter on here about debts. Just asked for clarification of his statement. If you have concerns take it up with him as he made the statement. Other than that good luck in the Granny on Sunday.
|
|
|
Post by wako on Mar 12, 2013 12:37:37 GMT 10
As I've said before, it is good to see a summer baseball club in the outer north-west (which is now and will continue to be a huge growth area) again; hopefully this will also help numbers at Bacchus Marsh (GBA) or MWBL clubs in the area. Obviously it's unfortunate that things have not gone as smoothly off-field as one might hope, but in any case, good luck to the Titans and well done to all who made it possible.
On the actual topic, based on the assumption that stealing when "well ahead" is a form of "running up the score", I would say that what exactly "well ahead" is needs to be considered. In a finals game, it is likely that both teams will have a relatively strong offence. Therefore I would say that if it is still fairly early in the game, and the team who is behind has the capability and sufficient time to come back, it should not be considered a faux pas to keep stealing and generally playing aggressively. As the score and time changes, this would need to be reconsidered. Stealing 10-0 up in the top of 2 in a final is very different to stealing 10-0 up in the top of 6 in the same final and different again to stealing 10-0 up in the top of 2 in a 1st v 7th regular season game.
|
|
|
Post by nicko1469 on Mar 12, 2013 12:46:14 GMT 10
Just to clarify. I did mention debts yes but my comment was just stating that we will be debt free. I never said to whom, for what or how much as that is obvilously not anyone elses business. It was juat a statement. As jeff has said and i have also said in other posts. Melton mustangs are no more. We are the titans. I am a titan. And i am sick of people bring up that the mustangs are terrible. Seriously. We had ups and downs as many clubs do. We were blessed to take 4 premierships in a row and possibly a 5th. It was very hard and upsetting watching the doors close on the mustangs. It had a great culture and we always had fun and we were all great friends. BUT THAT IS ALL IN THE PAST NOW. I am a TITAN and so are a few others from the mustangs. All i want to do is see the Titans succed n and off tge diamond.
|
|
|
Post by oldmanriver on Mar 12, 2013 13:22:49 GMT 10
Nicko, it would have been 3 or 4 seasons ago when our club made it's first foray into Summer Baseball, it was a fairly warm day. about 32 deg, no grass on the infield and the beer was a touch warm as somebody forgot to put into the fridge. Good luck this weekend in the GF and hope that you get the same result as we did, a win.
|
|
|
Post by nicko1469 on Mar 12, 2013 13:48:20 GMT 10
Its changed alot now. The ground is prob in better shape than its ever been and the beer is always cold. Always welcome to come have a beer. Ohh and what club was it
|
|
|
Post by oldmanriver on Mar 12, 2013 14:10:27 GMT 10
A bayside suburb near Frankston. The Cradinals.
|
|
|
Post by wskier on Mar 13, 2013 8:47:22 GMT 10
nicko, the beer might be cold, but water, soft drink and food certainly haven't been easy to come by out at the Titans this season. Which is a great shame given that it is about a 30 minute round trip to go and get something and get back to your diamond.
|
|
|
Post by headinsand on Mar 13, 2013 16:10:47 GMT 10
To pirates, Touched a nerve!
To Goblin, Touched another nerve!
I believe to many clubs "sail close to the winds, when it comes to seasons home and away end, all BV debts need to be paid". To many clubs struggle financially with players not paying their subs! But i suppose it's ok as long as you can drink beer!
|
|
EAD
New Member
Posts: 6
|
Post by EAD on Mar 13, 2013 20:11:17 GMT 10
As far as im concerned, if you were playing a bottom ranked team and started stealing bases after ten runs up, that aint cool. But now its finals time and i think a different set of "unwritten rules" apply. You are now playing the Number 2 ranked team in your division and they are there for a reason. If you get ten runs up and stop stealing, will they stop stealing. My guess is no! Now we have all been around the game long enough to have seen the odd "miracle comeback" before and this weekend is no exception to this possibility. You stop stealing, they keep stealing and before you know it youre having a blowout innings and your Grand final is lost! So i say steal away during finals, as the four best teams made it there, and the teams losing arent likely to modify their game because your winning, cos they wanna win it just as bad as you do. Gentlemens agreement through REGULAR SEASON though whether you are the best team beating the worst, or the worst team beating the best!
EAD
|
|
legend
Junior Member
Posts: 69
|
Post by legend on Mar 13, 2013 23:07:50 GMT 10
Thought I read the word Titanic in a few of these posts
Maybe a new Underbelly series will come out of this...... Underbelly - the Melton Keyboard Warriors
Ever thought of sitting down and talking about this crap or having a punch up instead of taking to a forum? Clean it up
|
|